Have you ever tried to save a loved one from taste in music that is so gauche that you know they will be subjected to a lifetime of condescending laughter from Pitchfork aficionados? I saw my sister descending into the shame of being one of the RIAA sheeple, and I could not stand by and watch such a promising young life fall into ruination and despair.

I looked at her playlist and saw: The All-American Rejects, Augustana, Beatles, Beyonce, Bob Marley, The Black-Eyed Peas, Electric Light Orchestra, Green Day, Jeff Buckley, Joni Mitchell, The Manchester Orchestra, MGMT, Michael Franti & Spearhead, Michelle Branch, Neutral Milk Hotel, Oasis, Queen, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, Regina Spektor, Rufus Wainwright, The Shins, Simon & Garfunkel, Slightly Stoopid, Snow Patrol.

She had it bad, but was not beyond all hope, so a rescue attempt seemed worthwhile. While it was mostly mainstream trash, there were sparks of quality.

I decided to create a playlist that might lure her from the edge, by being accessible and likely to appeal to the young, white female taste. This would not be one of those pusillanimous mix-tapes, but was a collection of albums:
Animal Collective – Merriweather Post Pavilion
Anthony & The Johnsons – I Am A Bird Now
Arcade Fire – Funeral
Arcade Fire – Neon Bible
British Sea Power – The Decline of British Sea Power
Bjork – Homogenic
Bon Iver – For Emma, Forever Ago
Coldplay – A Rush of Blood to the Head
Death Cab for Cutie – Transatlanticism
David Bowie – The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust
Decemberists, The – Crane Wife
Deerhunter – Microcastle
Elbow – The Seldom Seen Kid
Elbow – Cast of Thousands
Elliot Smith – Either/Or
Elliot Smith – XO
Feist – The Reminder
Franz Ferdinand – Franz Ferdinand
Hold Steady, The – Boys and Girls in America
Interpol – Turn on the Bright Lights
Joanna Newsom – Ys
Modest Mouse – The Moon & Antarctica
National, The - Alligator
National, The - Boxer
New Pornographers, The – Twin Cinema
Of Montreal – Hissing Fauna, Are You The Destroyer?
Okkervil River – Black Sheep Boy
Pixies, The – Doolittle
Portishead – Dummy
Portishead – Third
R.E.M. - Murmur
R.E.M. - Automatic for the People
Replacements, The – Let It Be
Sonic Youth – Daydream Nation
Spoon - Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga
Spoon - Kill the Moonlight
Sufjan Stevens – Illinois
Tim Buckley – Goodbye and Hello
TV on the Radio – Dear Science,
Walkmen, The – You & Me
White Stripes, The – Elephant
White Stripes, The – White Blood Cells
Wilco – Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Wolf Parade - Apologies to the Queen Mary
Wrens, The – The Meadowlands

This was about 12 days ago, and the news is mixed. While she has relapsed into her old ways to some degree, she is listening to the new music as well. In fact, Dear Science, is now one of her favorite albums, and she has also come back multiple times to Apologies to the Queen Mary. We will see how she holds up over the long term, but if anything at all remains, I will feel that I have done a good deed.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: WebPlus,

I tried starting a similiar topic here eons ago. Needless to say, it divulged into a cliched discussion about the definition of indie music and the inevitable relativistic 'music is subjective!' responses. No shit, that's not relevant to the topic. I love this forum.

Anyways, your sister's original playlist choices were deep and varied enough. There were some artists considered the backbone of modern pop - Beatles, Simon and Garfunkel - and some quintessential 'indie's' like Radiohead and Neutral Milk Hotel. I guess your list would be helpful to someone who wants to expand on those tastes and I'd agree with the selections on your list in that regard. Essentially a primer on popular indie of the 90s - 2000s. I'd maybe add any PJ Harvey, 'Exhil in Guyville' by Liz Phair, some St. Vincent, Cat Power, Azure Ray, and Mirah if female vocalists/singer-songwriters appeal to her.

Whenever I catch one of my friends listening to something like "All American Rejects", I walk up to them and punch them in their mouth and then kick them in the gut. I do this with my female friends as well. It works, you should try it.

While I approve of your playlist and appreciate your attempt to save someone from being an RIAA sheeple, certainly there are others who are more in need of your efforts. The artists on her playlist show some taste, as many of those artists also are on my iPod. How could you really complain about someone whose tastes are eclectic enough to include Bob Marley, Electric Light Orchestra, Jeff Buckley, Neutral Milk Hotel, Radiohead, and Simon and Garfunkle.

She may be receptive to your help. The real challenge would be converting someone with Britney, Avril Lavigne, Taylor Swift, and Blink 123 on her iPod.

Haha cool idea

About 5 minutes ago my sister criticized my music while listening to illinois while she was listening to mariah carey...

Shes of the "Britney, Avril Lavigne, Taylor Swift, and Blink 123 on her iPod." variety.

"RIAA Sheeple", hahaha, so true.

I don't know if I blame your sister for "relapsing into her old ways". That playlist is a lot to swallow at once, and some of the choices *cough*Joanna Newsom*cough* are pretty tough to get into at first.

I agree with the recommendation about Exile in Guyville. Maybe some Neko Case or Final Fantasy-- something that goes down easy.

yeah, this person's taste doesn't look that bad. I mean, clearly, there's some cringeworthy stuff. But at the very least there are some staples (i.e. Jeff Buckley).

The thing with a musical intervention is that this person may need to admit she has a problem first.

Another great way to expand her palette is to take her to a live show for one of your suggested artists. Tell her to 'digest' the band's album for 2 weeks prior to the show.

I used this technique with my girlfriend with bands like Broken Social Scene, Spoon and the Constantines and she was a quick convert.

In case it wasn't clear, I was mocking some of the more zealous indie fans with my heightened rhetoric in the original post. In reality, I don't believe that liking, say, the Beatles, mainstream though they may be, is an unforgivable sin.

Well, the third album she has singled out was Bon Iver, which destroyed any burgeoning theories I had that she was attracted to the more energetic stuff.

She actually kind of liked Only Skin by Newsom - the albums she commented negatively on as weird were Sufjan (who I thought would be an easy sell) and Antony. She liked In the Flowers and has listened to it multiple times, but thought My Girls was too repetitive.

To get her revenge on me (and she even phrased it that way), she got two bands she'd heard on Gossip Girl.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: WebPlus,

quote:

Originally posted by Bonzo:
Another great way to expand her palette is to take her to a live show for one of your suggested artists. Tell her to 'digest' the band's album for 2 weeks prior to the show.

I used this technique with my girlfriend with bands like Broken Social Scene, Spoon and the Constantines and she was a quick convert.

That is a great idea. I mean unless a person absolutely deplored the band they'd probably stay through to hear the entire set if they (presumably) already paid for it. Of course, getting them to go at all would be the biggest hurdle.

I've convinced a few of my friends to see bands I knew that they hadn't heard. I know my sisters would definitely not go any concert of my favorite bands (even if I bought them the tickets) anymore than I would go with them to Rascal Flats, Keith Urban, Kenny Cheney, or any other horrific county concert. Although, I will say the audience eye candy would most likely be better.

Nice coincidence that this thread turned up this week after a few days ago I managed to turn my friend who only ever listens to stuff released on Fat Wreck Chords onto Grizzly Bear

quote:

Originally posted by chaos:
Whenever I catch one of my friends listening to something like "All American Rejects", I walk up to them and punch them in their mouth and then kick them in the gut. I do this with my female friends as well. It works, you should try it.

hahaha! This is hilarious. What was their new song? "Gives em Hell" or something like that? Terrible, terrible.

Wow. This is something of an accomplishment; I actually think I've found the most pretentious post on the entire internet. You know, I love music - I'm a musician - I write about music often. I honestly believe music is the best chance humanity has to reconcile their differences and find shared understanding and sympathy with each other. To that end, music is personal, and when self-described holier-than-thou 'indie' listeners stomach a few hours of what Pitchfork shoves down your throats, you suddenly believe that you're impervious to committing the heinously offensive act of dismissing a person's entire relationship with music simply because you know better. What you've actually done, in this effort, is alienate me from your entire selection of music, because I deeply and resolutely wouldn't want to associate any part of my listening habits with self-praising aural egotists like yourself.

THIS is the reason indie-music gets a bad name.

quote:

Originally posted by Joewithajay:
Wow. This is something of an accomplishment; I actually think I've found the most pretentious post on the entire internet. You know, I love music - I'm a musician - I write about music often. I honestly believe music is the best chance humanity has to reconcile their differences and find shared understanding and sympathy with each other. To that end, music is personal, and when self-described holier-than-thou 'indie' listeners stomach a few hours of what Pitchfork shoves down your throats, you suddenly believe that you're impervious to committing the heinously offensive act of dismissing a person's entire relationship with music simply because you know better. What you've actually done, in this effort, is alienate me from your entire selection of music, because I deeply and resolutely wouldn't want to associate any part of my listening habits with self-praising aural egotists like yourself.

THIS is the reason indie-music gets a bad name.

If you had bothered to read the rest of the conversation, you would have seen this:

quote:

Originally posted by WebPlus:
In case it wasn't clear, I was mocking some of the more zealous indie fans with my heightened rhetoric in the original post. In reality, I don't believe that liking, say, the Beatles, mainstream though they may be, is an unforgivable sin.

Besides, what's so wrong with attempting to expand someone's repertoire? 95% of the people out there have probably never heard of any of the artists on that list, and it's broad enough that the odds are that someone would find something they'd connect with (which, again, if you had continued reading, you would have seen that she did). Nobody is saying that she is required to like this music: it's simply a recommendation. I'm sure you've made music suggestions to your friends before.

It's like if you spent your entire life in New Jersey and never ventured anywhere outside of your hometown. Your friend is shocked by this and buys you plane tickets for an extensive European tour - Germany, Switzerland, Greece, France, Norway: the works. These are places that you've never been, that you've never experienced. You might love it or you might hate it (the odds are that you'll find at least something that you'll enjoy), but you have expanded your world view slightly, and you're aware that something else exists out there that is different than what you're used to.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: laughingstock,

quote:

Originally posted by Joewithajay:
Wow. This is something of an accomplishment; I actually think I've found the most pretentious post on the entire internet. You know, I love music - I'm a musician - I write about music often. I honestly believe music is the best chance humanity has to reconcile their differences and find shared understanding and sympathy with each other. To that end, music is personal, and when self-described holier-than-thou 'indie' listeners stomach a few hours of what Pitchfork shoves down your throats, you suddenly believe that you're impervious to committing the heinously offensive act of dismissing a person's entire relationship with music simply because you know better. What you've actually done, in this effort, is alienate me from your entire selection of music, because I deeply and resolutely wouldn't want to associate any part of my listening habits with self-praising aural egotists like yourself.

THIS is the reason indie-music gets a bad name.

Joe, clearly this is the most obvious response to a thread like this and an understandable one - albeit one that's been said probably 10,000 times on this board. I don't think most indie rock fans take that pretentious of an approach to music, but some do. If you want to get into a debate about if and/or how to judge music, it's popped up on this board in a million other places so I'm sure you won't have to look very far.

However, I think the idea is more to laughingstock's point - trying to convert someone isn't the goal so much as it is to provide recommendations. Most of the time the recommendations are probably just personal favorites rather than tailored to the recomende. Personally, I don't suggest artists to people who don't share my taste in music unless they ask for it - even then I'm fairly reluctant. Sometimes though desperation really takes over. It's a selfish affair but not always a pointless one.

can someone explain the definition of indie rock?

quote:

can someone explain the definition of indie rock?

Oh for the love of god...does this thread have to become one of those arguments?

quote:

Originally posted by Fitz:
can someone explain the definition of indie rock?

Trying to convert her from one stereotype to another? Good luck with that.