No worries, buddy.

Sometimes I get a little defensive with newby's.

Welcome aboard, and I hope you have many posts.

As for your comment, I still believe that it's up to the artist to decide what they chose to do with their creativity.

Some fans get way to possesive, and feel that the artist owes it to them to stay small and personal.

Thanks, I'll be more careful with my wording from now on.
I agree that it is up to the artist to do what they please with their creativity. Some things seem to be opposed to their role as an artist however i.e. licensing their music for commercials and etc. I definitely think they have a right to do it, but, at least for me, there is something that is lost from the song when it is put in that kind of context. It might said that is my reaction to them "selling out" however, I don't lose any respect for the band, but they can't expect me to listen to that song in the same way as I used to. And, when I'm listening to the album it is on, not have that song seem to interrupt the flow of the album simply because of the different connotations the commercial has created for it. But I'm rambling.

Anyway, glad to be here.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Conor,

Hang on, "defensive with newbies"? Dude, you registered two weeks ago.

What I think is the situation here is that bands that are lousy will continue to be lousy once they sign to a major label. So either way Death Cab fans are screwed.

quote:

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Originally posted by nojax:
Hang on, "defensive with newbies"? Dude, you registered two weeks ago.

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Yeah, but he was here, under a different definite description, before. His multiple identities on these Forums have become as common as a Philadelphia failure to win the big one.

quote:

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Originally posted by nojax:
What I think is the situation here is that bands that are lousy will continue to be lousy once they sign to a major label. So either way Death Cab fans are screwed.

---

Good example of taking the easy way out.

quote:

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Originally posted by philosopherEric:

quote:

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Originally posted by nojax:
Hang on, "defensive with newbies"? Dude, you registered two weeks ago.

---

Yeah, but he was here, under a different definite description, before. His multiple identities on these Forums have become as common as a Philadelphia failure to win the big one.

---

Are you debating me or baiting me?

OK, I'll bite.

From my understanding, Philly have only lost two Superbowls, and they were many years apart.

Now, if you had've said ".....as common as their failure to win conference championships, that I could go along with.

"Death cab....." people, you can now have your room back, to discuss the merits of selling out.

quote:

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Originally posted by burning man:



Are you debating me or baiting me?

OK, I'll bite.

From my understanding, Philly have only lost two Superbowls, and they were many years apart.

Now, if you had've said ".....as common as their failure to win conference championships, that I could go along with.

"Death cab....." people, you can now have your room back, to discuss the merits of selling out.

---

First, I was speaking of the "big one" generally...either the NFC Championship or the Super Bowl. The rap on the Eagles is that they're a good team who can't win the big game, defined generally. Each of the last four years they've had a shot...

The main point, however, was that I was defending you...pointing out that you weren't a 2-week newby.

Excuse my misunderstanding you, phil, but since I've been on this forum I've been attacked, had my intelligence questioned, had my sanity questioned, been out and out threatened and all and all found myself on the back foot just for expessing my views, my way.

I have been accused of being sarcastic, snide and evasive.

As I have pointed out before, no one else here has had to deflect the sustained attack I have been under.

I feel like an independant that's been signed to a major.

I can't do right by anyone, without offending someone else.

Hell, it's just my opinion. No more or less relevant than anyone elses opinion.

quote:

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Originally posted by burning man:
Excuse my misunderstanding you, phil, but since I've been on this forum I've been attacked, had my intelligence questioned, had my sanity questioned, been out and out threatened and all and all found myself on the back foot just for expessing my views, my way.

I have been accused of being sarcastic, snide and evasive.

As I have pointed out before, no one else here has had to deflect the sustained attack I have been under.

I feel like an independant that's been signed to a major.

I can't do right by anyone, without offending someone else.

Hell, it's just my opinion. No more or less relevant than anyone elses opinion.

---

My question is this:

Do you think you bring any of this on yourself? You are often a very lucid commentator, but just as often you offer little more than non sequiters and comments that only YOU understand. You also (literally) carry on conversations with yourself (which I find to be borderline disrespectful to the other members here) and make a big, dramatic show of quitting the forums, only to be back a day later. Several of our longtime contributors have, at various points, complained about some of your posts. I'm pretty sure that's at least part of the reason why people react to you as they do.

Moreover, the personal attacks you speak of (one that I can think of specifically) were quickly responded to (BY ME) in your defense. I addressed with Nickel-Z what I thought I was an overly aggressive post, and he apologized.

I'm not sure who attacked your intelligence, but I'm pretty sure you think it was me...which is blatantly false. I merely asked for you to defend some of your admittedly wild assertions. You responded by making a rude comment about the "experts" and quitting the Forums. For a day. You never re-engaged in the dialogue, and you seem to revert to an "everyone's out to get me" attitude at the drop of the hat. Your repeated comments about the "arbiters of taste" trying to silence you is evidence of that.

As far as your sanity goes, I can't speak to that. But all of your constant allusions to suicide and threats to "leave" certainly don't make me think you're nuts, but they don't make me think you're trying to engage with anyone here. You seem to have your own agenda, and you seem to like dialoguing with yourself, and that makes me think that it should be obvious why people react to you the way they do.

Whoops sorry for the erroneous claims re: a veteran being new

quote:

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Good example of taking the easy way out.

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Yeah, the hard way out would be liking Death Cab

OHSNAPP

quote:

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Originally posted by nojax:
Whoops sorry for the erroneous claims re: a veteran being new

quote:

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Good example of taking the easy way out.

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Yeah, the hard way out would be liking Death Cab

OHSNAPP

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In the interest of decorum, let's let this whole discussion go. Nojax...your comments insulting people for liking DCFC aren't really constructive in any sense. I thought the first one was funny, but now you seem to have moved on from being funny to merely insulting people based on their preferences, which isn't part of our M.O. here.

Thank you for straightening me out, phil.

You have taken it on yourself to explain to me the error of my ways, and for that I should feel priveliged.

It was the storm_chaser persona that left, because I felt that the gentler attitude I adopted was being mis-understood. I felt it nescessary to adopt this persona in the first place, because I was being blocked from responding as burning man.

It was not an attempt to hide behind another guise, but simply an attempt to change tact, which I thought was being forced upon me by the hostility directed towards me.

And what the hell does it matter what I post anyway, seeing as how my posts are edited, deleted and moved around at the forum moderators whim.

As storm_chaser, I was being as honest and forthright as possible, and I was getting comments like "Are you being sarcastic" and "I think your being snide".

I can't seem to win.

I returned because you attacked the Eagles.

When I joined this forum, I found a bunch of opinionated people intimidating others into submission by attacking anything they didn't agree with. Everyone was taking everything way to seriously.

I thought that a little fun might go along way.

OK, I was wrong. I have rarely ever been so wrong.

I may not give many answers, but I certainly give people pause to think, and that includes you, phil.

As for the suicide thing, I recall only once referring to suicide, and that reference was "This is NOT a suicide note", so that there wouldn't be any missunderstandings.

I appreciate the effort you have put into trying to understand me, but there is really very little to understand.

I just wanna give my opinion without being attacked and enjoy myself a little at the same time.

I keep coming back beacause I have a genuine affection for this forum, but it might just be an unrequited love that I won't allow myself to accept.

I cannot help but feel a hostility in your tone, which disarms me somewhat, because you were the first person on this forum who was willing to give me the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe you are angry at me because you feel I am manipulating you.

I feel sorry for the "Death cab....." people who have had there discussion interupted by this meaningless tussle.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: burning man,

quote:

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Originally posted by burning man:
Thank you for straightening me out, phil.

You have taken it on yourself to explain to me the error of my ways, and for that I should feel priveliged.

It was the storm_chaser persona that left, because I felt that the gentler attitude I adopted was being mis-understood. I felt it nescessary to adopt this persona in the first place, because I was being blocked from responding as burning man.

It was not an attempt to hide behind another guise, but simply an attempt to change tact, which I thought was being forced upon me by the hostility directed towards me.

And what the hell does it matter what I post anyway, seeing as how my posts are edited, deleted and moved around at the forum moderators whim.

As storm_chaser, I was being as honest and forthright as possible, and I was getting comments like "Are you being sarcastic" and "I think your being snide".

I can't seem to win.

I returned because you attacked the Eagles.

When I joined this forum, I found a bunch of opinionated people intimidating others into submission by attacking anything they didn't agree with. Everyone was taking everything way to seriously.

I thought that a little fun might go along way.

OK, I was wrong. I have rarely ever been so wrong.

I may not give many answers, but I certainly give people pause to think, and that includes you, phil.

As for the suicide thing, I recall only once referring to suicide, and that reference was "This is NOT a suicide note", so that there wouldn't be any missunderstandings.

I appreciate the effort you have put into trying to understand me, but there is really very little to understand.

I just wanna give my opinion without being attacked and enjoy myself a little at the same time.

I keep coming back beacause I have a genuine affection for this forum, but it might just be an unrequited love that I won't allow myself to accept.

I cannot help but feel a hostility in your tone, which disarms me somewhat, because you were the first person on this forum who was willing to give me the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe you are angry at me because you feel I am manipulating you.

I feel sorry for the "Death cab....." people who have had there discussion interupted by this meaningless tussle.

---

To begin with, your opening lines, as with your closing lines in the Philosophy books Forum, reek of sarcasm. I personally don't care one way or the other about whether or not your ways are errant or correct. I was responding to your "everyone hates me" spiel with an explanation as to WHY that might be the case. I've defended you numerous times, but I'm done. I honestly don't care anymore. I'm not interested in being right, or superior, or playing Daddy beyond enforcing the rules of the Forums.

Onto more specific things:

First of all, you were never BLOCKED from doing anything. You were asked, rather nicely, by the Moderators to follow the codes of conduct here at the Forums which included making posts that were interesting and relevant. And this was after numerous complaints, public and private, from longtime members about your posts. If you don't understand WHY people were hostile toward your posts in your first go-around as burning_man, then you probably will never get it. You will merely feel like you are being persecuted for no reason. But people (myself included) were tiring quickly of your rambling and bizarre posts that often had no connection to the actual discussion.

Secondly, I'm getting pretty tired of hearing people constantly bemoaning that the Moderators are performing some kind of 1984-esque mind control. If anything thinks that I enjoy closing, moving, or deleting topics, they're just wrong. I have never restricted ANYONE'S right to speak here. I've moved topics, when they fit better in other headings, and I've deleted spam and closed spammers topics, but nobody here has ever tried to "silence" you in the way you imply. I have never prevented ANYONE from speaking their minds within the limits of the rules of the boards. Our private message to you was merely that. 90% of the time, you have interesting things to say and I enjoy reading them. Our discussion of empathy was both entertaining and stimulating, until you decided to take my demand for you to defend your assertions as some sort of smug superiority on my part. If you want to engage in dialogue, I think it's fair to expect that wild assertions (which may be correct ones) be defended. But instead you turned the tables on me, and called me (essentially) a jackass.


As for your motives...of bringing (I guess) levity to our too-serious Forums...I'm not sure why you felt the need to make a bunch of people who are here BY CHOICE feel like they were taking what they were doing for fun too seriously. I was having fun here long before you arrived, and I've had fun since you've been here. I only come here for fun. I've got far more important things in my life than these Forums. I've got a job, I've got a wife, and a baby on the way. I come here for recreation, and I don't take it too seriously, even when things that are said here are opposed to my point of view. I've had heated arguments with people on everything from politics to Pitchfork, but I've never been personally bothered by them after I disconnect from the Internet until now. What I DO take seriously, and what does bother me personally, are accusations that I'm trying to dictate what's said on these Forums to meet some agenda of mine, and that I'm out to try to insult your intelligence, sanity, or manhood.

You say you just want your opinion to be heard. I don't think anyone here has ever stopped you. I can't find many instances where you were "attacked" and I fail to find being asked to defend your opinions (on a Forum for a board dedicated to criticism of various sorts) to be an attack. If you want to say "I like apple pie" and then refuse to answer "why not blueberry pie,"
then all you want to do is spout off and you have no interest in dialoguing with the others here. This seems like what you're doing here some of the time...maybe I just don't understand your sense of humor. If this board is merely an outlet for you to say things and you have no interest in conversing (and begin challenged when you make outrageous claims), then go start a blog. If not, then I'm more than happy to converse with you.

quote:

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Originally posted by nojax:
Whoops sorry for the erroneous claims re: a veteran being new

quote:

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Good example of taking the easy way out.

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Yeah, the hard way out would be liking Death Cab

OHSNAPP

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ICEBURN

It is clearly evident that pE needs no help defending his actions, his motives, or himself. He does, however, touch on several issues regarding moderating that he, markf, and I have been discussing among ourselves and I think are worth noting.

The members of these forums self-police themselves better than any online group I have seen in a long time. I know that all three of us are grateful for that and consider ourselves lucky. I have seen heated arguments resolved with sincere apologies without need for intervention more times than I would have ever though possible.

On the few occasions when intervention has been warranted, I have seen it has done with due consideration for preserving the public dignity of the member, whic has almost always been received gracefully. In the rare instance when that has not been the case, the matter has at least been resolved privately. The three of us consult with one another regularly about how to proceed as much to check our own motives as to solicit advice.

The occasional suggestions that any moderator of these forums makes decisions based on the intoxicating power of telling others what to do is laughable. As pE has pointed out, we have lives, and busy, happy lives at that. My own professional life has been busy enough this past month to leave me with little or no time or energy to pass a few pleasant hours here. I hope is behind me now. I have missed hanging out here and look forward to getting to know another bunch of great new members.

To be blunt, anybody who thinks they are on the receiving end of a vendetta from any one of us is suffering from a wildly overdeveloped ego. For that matter, and aside from occasional spats, I have never seen any indication anywhere in these forums that any of our members are actively grinding a personal ax against one another. Anybody who believes otherwise would do well to log off, turn off the computer, and consider a more relaxing and personally fulfilling hobby. Barring that, bring it to our attention, take it up with us privately, or take it up with each other privately. There are too many people here enjoying themselves and their interractions to be bothered with petty nonsense.

Is this thread officially derailed or may I still express my disgust for Death Cab for Cutie?

Oh no, my individuality has once again been ripped away by Big Business Music. How dare those bastards advertise!

My disgust has nothing to do with the fact that they signed to a major label. It simply has to do with the fact that they've never written a single song that I enjoyed even a tiny bit. To be honest I have no idea how they managed to score a major label deal.