Now i know that this is not going to go down well, as i know how well Spoon are thought of on here and by the American press in general, but are they just simply massively overrated? I just hear derivative music that is neither original or imaginative. What am i missing here? If you disagree with me could you explain what makes Spoon a band deserving of the praise that is heaped upon them?

First, I need to ask how many albums by them you have heard. If all you are hearing is "derivative music that is neither original or imaginative" then you need to hear more. I won't claim that they are the most innovative band currently making music, but they are one tremendous force. Their albums are strikingly consistent, the music is catchy and has killer hooks, the lyrics are never the best in the world but they match the music well.

Each album has been somewhat different from the previous and they have never released one bad album. Not only are they one of the best bands of the 2000s but they are arguably the best one. Some of their albums need some more listening time (Gimme Fiction) than others (Kill the Moonlight) but all are extremely rewarding. I think you really need to sit down and hear what they are trying to do. If all of their albums have been "universally acclaimed," then they must be doing something right.

You don't listen to Spoon if you want to hear the reinvention of the wheel. I would and perhaps will argue that they are anything but derivative though. They know the tradition of rock n roll pretty damn well, and they show it (tastefully). What keeps them from being derivative is that they know their place in the tradition of music - a tradition that spans from punk to rock to soul to funk.

As I have probably ranted before, Beefheart pretty much did reinvent the wheel, but he still quoted pretty massively from other sources in his lyrics. I don't think that makes him a thief. Just about everything that has ever come out of my mouth has been said before by someone else. To support my case, I should mention that the previous sentence was actually a paraphrase of something John Cage said. But I am not a derivative (or an integral, for that matter ).

It's all in the way you use a quotation that determines whether it floats or sinks. For my part, I believe that showing respect for the source when you quote is critical. By this I mean that someone who wants to steal the glory of the source would not be having respect. But if you want to twist the quote around for your own purposes (NOT for the sake of simple imitation, smear, or trying to take the moment created by the original), then quotation can work as a valid artistic (yucky word) device.

I have come to believe more and more that doing something nobody has done before is not as important as doing whatever you do well. And Spoon does their thing well.

For me, the bottom line is, "Do I enjoy the music?" I don't care if it's new, old, derivative or experimental, but if I like it, I want to crank up the receiver. Now, without my calling them derivative, Spoon basically makes me want to crank.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mark f,

Very few bands or musicians actually redefine and noticably expand the boundaries of popular music. So, it seems to me that about 99.9% of the music out there (whether fantastic or otherwise) is derivative.

That being said, Spoon seems to me to be a band that, like vitunkrapula pointed out, knows the canon and is able to draw from that breadth of knowledge. They're a band that does a lot of different things, and does them all really well.

While not the most original writer, i've always thought of him as being clever and very sincere at times which is a wonderful combination. I've always thought Britt didn't get enough recognition for his lyrics which are understated but very very good.

first, to answer mark f: basically, it's as Duke Ellington said "there are two kinds of music: good music and bad music".

i too don't understand Spoon. and i've really really tried. I admit i haven't heard anything pre-Gimme Fiction but their last two (GF and Ga^5) have gotten more than their fair share of spins. And i still don't get it. When Ga^5 came out, i went back and gave Gimme Fiction an other try, three years later. Nothing! But i'll keep trying nonetheless. maybe as i get familiar with their sound i'll learn to appreciate it

Although I have Gimmie Fiction and GA^5, I don't consider myself a fan of Spoon. Some of their material I really enjoy e.g., Everything Hits At Once and most of Gimmie Fiction, but the rest is forgettable.

I think some of their fandom results from the fact that Spoon is poised to be the next band to do what Modest Mouse did and the fans are foaming at the mouth to tell everyone they told them so - aka indie snobbery 101.

I can understand why people like Spoon, but I can't understand all the greatest band of today statements. Their music is relatively simple versus the complexity of menomena/ arcade fire/ deerhoof/ etc. and there's nothing too catchy about most of it. It's almost like people have embraced mediocrity and Spoon is the poster-band for this movement.

Now, I don't want to come off like I hate Spoon or anything. But with all the praise people give them, criticism isnt going to be far behind. To me Spoon is a lot like Wilco in so much as that I just don't see why people are so into them.

Now to give people an idea of where I'm coming from... I think that a band like Radiohead truly deserves all the praise they receive. Anyone who's seen a live show will attest to this...

Furthermore, I think the following bands are much better than Spoon, but with half the praise.

Belle and Sebastian
The New Pornographers
The Rapture

to name a few.

So is Spoon a good band? - most definitely yes. Are they overrated? most definitely yes as well.

Overrated? Hugely.

They're horrifyingly consistent. I cannot think of a single Spoon song that I dislike.

There are other bands that do things that are more interesting to me, but if I want some rock music, if I want to bob my head and just have a good time and rock out, I shall do as mark f has said, and crank that Spoon.

I think it is so funny that bands who 95% of the population have never heard of-- let alone heard-- could possibly even be considered overrated. Now you did qualify it by singling out the American press, but seriously would you rather have them fawning over Evanescence?

quote:

Originally posted by Maximum Jack:
I think it is so funny that bands who 95% of the population have never heard of-- let alone heard-- could possibly even be considered overrated. Now you did qualify it by singling out the American press, but seriously would you rather have them fawning over Evanescence?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishmaels coffin:
Overrated? Hugely.

That's all good and well, but the question was whether they are massively overrated

They make it look easy, but it's not. You go try and be Spoon, then come back and call them overrated.

Definition:
Overrated = I don't get it but many others do.

Quite simple really Tony, no explanation needed.

quote:

Originally posted by gomad361:
Definition:
Overrated = I don't get it but many others do.

Quite simple really Tony, no explanation needed.

I was thinking more along the lines of:
Definition:
Overrated = Being given more praise than is deserved.

i take on board the earlier points made that how can someone be overrated that is heard by a small percentage of the listening public, however on the flip side its not possible to rate something that you have not heard. In any event it was correct that i was really looking at the music press when posting this question.

Im not really sure that i agree with the theory that if you dont like something its because you don't get it. Im sure we all have bands we are just simply think are not very good without it being through some form of lack of understanding.

Just to fully respond to the other questions, i have only heard the last two albums. Is there something in their work before that point that is likely to cause a shift in my opinion? If so i could always change the post to:

Spoon's last two albums - Massively overrated?

I have no problem with anybody not liking Spoon... it's all a matter of taste really. But please spare me the "it lacks complexity" nonsense. Be it Arcade Fire, Modest Mouse, Menomena, The National, (insert indie rock band here with the exception that I know of being Deerhoof), it's pretty much all just pop music (and these bands would admit as much). I've never heard a Jaco-esque bass solo in any of these bands' music, nor do I want to. If I want complex jazz, I'll listen to complex jazz. Somehow, having an extra instrument double or triple the melody now passes for adding complexity. I love the Arcade Fire as much as anybody (my current dilemma is actually AF in Columbus on 10/3 or Spoon in Asheville on 10/24??), but their choice of chord changes is no more difficult than Spoon. If anything, Spoon pushes the boundaries rhythmically more than most other indie acts.

quote:

Originally posted by sh6ne:
I think some of their fandom results from the fact that Spoon is poised to be the next band to do what Modest Mouse did and the fans are foaming at the mouth to tell everyone they told them so - aka indie snobbery 101.

I can understand why people like Spoon, but I can't understand all the greatest band of today statements. Their music is relatively simple versus the complexity of menomena/ arcade fire/ deerhoof/ etc. and there's nothing too catchy about most of it. It's almost like people have embraced mediocrity and Spoon is the poster-band for this movement.

First, and your argument is completely irrational, but why would anybody like music just to be able to tell someone "I told you so?" That is a weak argument supported by what, "indie snobbery 101?"

As for your second comment: Music that is complex does not equal good music. Sure, Spoon's music is a bit more simpler than other bands but they do what they do very well and much better than some of the other bands making "hard music." Per your example, Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga is a much better album than the ones released by Menomena and Deerhoof this year--much better--and Spoon's album is "relatively simple"!

For me, Spoon has an interesting knack for incorporating existing musical styles into their work, but at the same time making it sound distinctly Spoon.

Take "Small Stakes". It's built around a familiar surf organ stab, but once you add in the big booming drums and Britt's reverb heavy vocals, it doesn't sound like anything you've heard before. Like many great bands, Spoon draws on the past without being derivative.

With 6 albums and 3 EPs under their, the only thing they've done that I've been less than thrilled with is their first album, Telephono. The real shame is that more people don't know them. I say Spoon is Massively Underrated.

So, to conclude: Spoon is not overrated. It's a no.