quote:

Originally posted by jonathanbrisby:
After getting my hands on the actual album I'm super pissed off about the packaging. I HATE digipaks and this one doesn't even have a spindle for the disc, so I took it out and put it in a jewelcase right away. No thanks to XL records for that shit. I do really love the record and its artwork, but the foldout booklet/package could've easily been worked into a jewelcase. Okay.....sorry for ranting........pet peeve.

Not at all. The fragility of vinyl always seemed like a bad thing, but in age of the CD, I'm coming to realize it was actually something of a benefit. There were only so many ways designers could get creative (I'm being charitable) with packaging, which meant there was always at least a minimum expectation of usability.

Today, though? Wow. I'm waiting for CDs to start shipping in the kind of indestructable blister packs that house small electronics.

Now Playing: "Need More Time" The Epoxies Synthesized

I actually like digipaks (I had to Google picture search to find out what they were), at least the ones with 3 or more panels. I do hate it when they don't have spindles for the CD though, like the Eels, Blinking Lights among others. That's just annoying as hell.

The main problem is, if you want kids to value music and not view it as some disposable commodity for download only, then not only do you owe it to them to make your artwork worthwhile, but you also owe it to them to make sure the product they purchase works. Nine times out of ten when you buy something in a digipak with no spindle the disc is already scratched from inserting it into it's paper sleeve at the factory and if not, the odds that it will get scratched when you try and remove it that first time are impossibly high. You might be able to scratch vinyl in a number of ways, but usually removing it from its paper insert won't do it, with CDs it will. After working in a record store for five years and we are fucking meticulous about not taking scratched discs, this kind of packaging damages the disc, sometimes to where it will skip and at the very least devalues it for resale if you wish to engage in that.

quote:

Originally posted by jonathanbrisby:
Nine times out of ten when you buy something in a digipak with no spindle the disc is already scratched from inserting it into it's paper sleeve at the factory and if not, the odds that it will get scratched when you try and remove it that first time are impossibly high.

that's weird, because this has never happened to me. in fact, my "band" released a cd in a digi without spindle and our label hasn't had any returned disks in the three months it's been out. i've ripped a few cases here and there over the years, but i've done the same to the inserts of jewel case cds.

oh and i think most "artists" would agree that cds actually are a disposable commodity, while the information encoded therein is not. i mean, cds are merch, you know? but that's probably a discussion for somewhere else...

anyways, everytime i listen to this record i like it more, which almost never happens to me. i like these songs more than the new radiohead songs i heard them play live in san diego a fews days ago. only "arpeggi" is maybe as good as the best tracks on the eraser, i think.

So you expect people to buy your CDs and throw them away? That's ridiculous. As a musician myself and record store employee I'd just like to state for the record that I don't think CDs are a disposable commodity, why bother making something like a CD if you don't care about it? Just give away mp3s online. As well, most people would defend that their discs don't have any scratches, the same people aren't nearly as scrutinizing as some record collectors such as myself. I've had many many people try to trade CDs at the record store where I work where we turn them down for being too scratched or scratched at all. These people always contend that their discs aren't scratched. Maybe you aren't examining them as critically as I would. The same goes for people returning discs. The majority of the public doesn't care enough about their discs to think about them getting scratched when removing them from the cases. Whether or not people are returning your discs makes no claim on whether or not the people who buy them care enough to return them for such reasons. If you want to defend digipaks and you want to let the album as an art form go the way of the dinosaur then that's your prerogative. Personally I think CDs and LPs are worth more than just the music encoded or imprinted on them, the actual physical artifacts are to be preserved as well. I'm not going to argue with someone that doesn't care about the same things I do. Agree to disagree?

As for digipaks themselves. I really don't understand how anyone would prefer or like something that can flap open at any time, expose the discs and their artwork to whatever might be around to harm them. Most of them end up looking like shit in a few years if not less than that, even when well taken care of. Digipaks are the whores of CD packaging. I'd rather have my disc and it's artwork well protected in a case that can be replaced if broken, cracked, etc. As opposed to a digipak that when it's spindle breaks or it's album art tears you basically have to replace the whole thing if you care about it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jonathanbrisby,

I understand that the topic is apparently closed, and NIMH is declared the winner, but I have to agree that I've had no problems with digipaks or sleeve CDs. They've never once scratched. However, those flippin' jewel cases break anytime somebody carries a couple at a time.

I'm not trying to say that somebody's wrong. I'm trying to say that it's OK to respect somebody else's opinion, plus you don't have to imply that people are idiots to disagree with them. I've been buying music at stores in various forms for at least 40 years now. I'm always able to get damaged merchandise exchanged, no matter how badly the guy wants to imply something or other. I don't believe that you work anywhere near me, so hopefully, we'll never have any discussions on who's responsible for what.

By the way, I enjoy reading your posts even though I'm not really exposed to most of the music you love.

obviously you've been burned one too many times by digis to have anything other than bliding hatred for the things, but here are a couple other points:

1) aesthetically speaking, jewel cases are disgusting to lots of people, me included.

2) certain (if not all) digi manufacturers make their products out of post-consumer material, and, if the the cd and therefore the digi should someday be spurned by their owner, it can be easily recycled. producing cds should be about creating an impact artistically, not environmentally.

these were the main two reasons we choose to have our album pressed as a digi. there were no reasons on the negative that any of us (from the band or from the label, which is pretty well known in indie-land) had experienced.

so yeah i guess since none of that makes sense to you and i've never had a cd get scratched from a digi in the multiple years i've owned them, then we agree to disagree.

Wait a sec, not eric, come clean. What's the label's name? Or, you can have a full-on cleansing and tell us about the band. This should be fun.

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
Wait a sec, not eric, come clean. What's the label's name? Or, you can have a full-on cleansing and tell us about the band. This should be fun.

yeah maybe fun for you, definitely embarrassing for me. i posted it once, felt disgusting, and deleted it. i'll pm you though.

Gracias. Mum's the Word.

Interesting.....interesting....some good points indeed on the recycling aspects of the digipak. Perhaps they aren't completely without merit. Some good points were made for and against. I always love discussing this kind of stuff here. I definitely don't want anyone, especially you guys who post regularly, to think that I'm implying you're stupid for having a different opinion than my own.

quote:

Originally posted by not eric:

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
Wait a sec, not eric, come clean. What's the label's name? Or, you can have a full-on cleansing and tell us about the band. This should be fun.

yeah maybe fun for you, definitely embarrassing for me. i posted it once, felt disgusting, and deleted it. i'll pm you though.

well shit, now i want to know.

Just took home a vinyl copy of The Eraser. The packaging blows the CD away. Very lovely emossed cover art and heavy ass LP, probably 180 grams. Nice.

<Jealous! Not eric, what's the band your in? Divulge your darkest secret!

I know, but I can't reveal it without permission.

Start a chant!

Tell us! Tell us!! Is that a good enough chant?

I've not been impressed by the handful of Thom solo tracks I've heard coming from tinny computer speakers, and I'm not a big fan of laptop pop, but I'll still pick it up. I'm a completist, and moreover, Radiohead-related projects have leeway. Any band that can make The Bends and OK Computer will not be written off easily.

Okay not eric, what band are you in? Even I want to know now.

quote:

Originally posted by jonathanbrisby:
The main problem is, if you want kids to value music and not view it as some disposable commodity for download only, then not only do you owe it to them to make your artwork worthwhile, but you also owe it to them to make sure the product they purchase works. Nine times out of ten when you buy something in a digipak with no spindle the disc is already scratched from inserting it into it's paper sleeve at the factory and if not, the odds that it will get scratched when you try and remove it that first time are impossibly high. You might be able to scratch vinyl in a number of ways, but usually removing it from its paper insert won't do it, with CDs it will. After working in a record store for five years and we are fucking meticulous about not taking scratched discs, this kind of packaging damages the disc, sometimes to where it will skip and at the very least devalues it for resale if you wish to engage in that.

That is one of my two reasons for hating digis without spindles. I also don't like the fact that the package is not easily replaceable. Even if you put the digi in a bag (which I do), the paper/cardboard wears out over time. I've got digis from the early 90's that are very ragged, but the disc is immaculate. So, if you want a new package you've got to REBUY the thing.

I'm a fan of environmentally friendly packaging, generally, but I prefer jewel cases (which are replaceable) over digis any day.

sorry that i hijacked the thom yorke thread.
go here for my band etc: http://forums.metacritic.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1711032/m/3550013534

now, back to the eraser, yeah?

quote:

Originally posted by jonathanbrisby:
Interesting.....interesting....some good points indeed on the recycling aspects of the digipak. Perhaps they aren't completely without merit. Some good points were made for and against. I always love discussing this kind of stuff here. I definitely don't want anyone, especially you guys who post regularly, to think that I'm implying you're stupid for having a different opinion than my own.

i'll admit that i was prepared to not spot you any points against digi packs, because all the problems you have with them i've never heard any of anyone having before. BUT: i just bought the eraser and this thing seems incredibly fragile with its accordian artwork. i love the aesthetic of the package still, but i can see this breaking pretty easily. so i don't think you're totally crazy when it comes to digipacks anymore.