Yeah, i know it "truly" stands for Intelligent Dance Music, but i figured i'd throw that term out the window since a lot of it is just Aphex Twin rehashed a decade after the fact. And i was wondering which forum to put this topic in, so mods may move it appropriately, though i think this is kind of the right spot.

So, i recall a discussion of the overarching themes of this decade in the musical context, and it seems as though people (not you, dear reader, but people) are forgetting just how much music of this decade is either rooted in dance or tangentially related to dance. The list of bands (many of them favorites around these parts) are so indebted to dance that it seems like a topic like this is in order. I don't remember where i read it, but a writer once indicated that folk was the only real overarching musical theme that the aughties have continued to add to, build upon, etc.

Simply put, i think that's wrong. Dance music, as interpreted by white nerds like pretty much most of us, seems to be much more influential in this decade. Where does it stem from, though? Does it come from that period of 2001-2003 where everyone tried to sound like Gang of Four (with several lingering bands up to the present even)? Did these bands kick off the movement?

Les Savy Fav
Liars
The Rapture
LCD Soundsystem
(up through Franz Ferdinand and Bloc Party)

Or, did this musical genre take shape when the indie-rockers decided to stop rocking so much (relatively speaking to the genre) and take cues from the likes of Daft Punk? Rooted more in Dance textures and electronic flourishes, where do the following bands fall?

Postal Service
M83
Hercules and Love Affair
Dan Deacon
Justice
Hot Chip

Drawing a line between the first and second list of bands, there seem to be about 2 things in common; (1) Daft Punk, and (2) The DFA. But, what's funny about this is that the first batch of bands are much more rooted in punk, see James Murphy's pre-LCD band Speedking for reference, as well as Les Savy Fav, Liars, and the Rapture's early work. So, if someone has any theories on how we geeks became obsessed with dancing (whilst not dancing very much or very well), please add comments here.

And, am i missing a big chunk of the puzzle? It's early on the left coast, so cut me some slack.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CleverName84,

Also, i wanted to talk about the progenitors of this genre, or those bands that directly influenced this kind of music. Here's my breakdown off the top of my head:


Kraftwerk
Gang of Four
Wire
Pop Group
Devo
Talking Heads
Brainiac
Fugazi (mostly the rhythm section though)
Daft Punk
The Orb
Primal Scream
Stereolab
Magnetic Fields (only some)
The Beta Band
Beck
Dismemberment Plan
Joy Division (possiby)
PiL
Bowie
Brian Eno (can't believe i didn't mention him yet)

Let's dance

M.I.A., if she is considered indie.

There has been a resurgence of new groups heavily influenced by eighties post-punk/no wave/new wave. Its become fashionable as of late (well, the last seven or so years, really), so there has been a surge of new bands popping up and getting extra hyped. The first batch of bands you listed (Liars, et al.) are generally considered to be Dance-punk and there was also that whole Electroclash thing. I'm pretty sure there is some more recent scene or terrible genre name for newer bands that are getting massively blog hyped and fall under this general indie dance category.

Indie/Alternative dance music isn't particularly new though. There was the Madchester scene of the late eighties/early nineties that combined indie, psych and dance music. There was also Saint Etienne's indie dance-pop and folktronica associated groups like Four Tet, The Books and Adem.

As far as earlier influences some of the bigger ones not mentioned would include Silver Apples, Suicide, Krautrock and New Order. Edit: should also mention Liquid Liquid, ESG and probably a few others I'm forgetting.

Anyways, "Inde Dance Music" didn't sprout up overnight, its been a continual development of various styles and scenes, such as the aforementioned Krautrock, No-Wave, Post-Punk, New Wave, Space Rock, Madchester, etc.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nmeiborg,

I totally forgot about the folktronica semi-movement. I remember when people would label that Patrick Wolf guy as such, and that didn't really make sense. The Books make much more sense, as does Caribou pre-Andorra and Manitoba.

No Wave seems to only have a tangential relationship to this sort of thing, though. Groups like Junior Boys and Cut Copy have a very distinct New Wave sound in direct contrast to what No Wave was all about.

"Yes New York" seems to be the go-to guide for this, but even that is missing a big piece of the puzzle and, well, some of the stuff on there isn't dancey at all.

Suicide is a good reference for the No-Wave / New Wave schism, because they seem to incorporate elements of both, though i think they lean a lot more heavily on No Wave. It's just that No Wave almost inextricably is associated with Sonic Youth and DNA etc. etc., and these seem to be different kinds of bands. Suicide might be a touchstone, but i think they're more influential in post-punk and noise circles to be honest (as are the Pop Group, which i mentioned earlier).

I'd say THE most influential bands for most of these revivalist groups would be DNA, James White & the Blacks/Contortions, Gang of Four, and This Heat. Although Liquid Liquid/ESG/A lot of Funk are pretty key influences. And the Talking Heads. Pop Group too. Shit, Actually, the majority of your list is pretty spot-on.. so I'll just add James Chance related music and This Heat to the already large list of groups people have come up with.

Seriously, how can you leave off This Heat?

Also, I'd say The Rapture's most post-punk material (Mirror EP) isn't rooted in Daft Punk nor DFA.. and neither is any of Liars stuff. Actually, I'm not sure any of the bands in the first category (other than LCDSS, who I'd say is better in the second category) have anything to do with DFA/Daft Punk... well, except later Rapture (who sound completely different).

I don't know man... maybe I just don't follow.

I think LCD Soundsystem seems to bridge the gap [a sizable one at that] between the first batch of bands and the second. Murphy has a pedigree rooted in kind of spazzy punk (like Les Savy Fav's earlier material as well) whereas the other bands/artists are much more pop-oriented. LCD SS kind of took the punk attitude and made it much more dancey (see Echoes compared to The Rapture's early work). I guess that's how the Daft Punk thing comes into play, in influencing Murphy's production style and making substance from a genre previously mocked for being just a stylistic novelty (before Daft Punk, what extremely dancefloor ready "techno," as most people would call it, was also substantive rather than merely something ravers listen to?) To that end, i believe Daft Punk was mostly influential on the LCD/Rapture/DFA side of things, where bands like Les Savy Fav and Liars took more from no-wave and post-punk.

I think i've just been rambling and am making no sense at this point, but Daft Punk and DFA seem closely linked stylistically, at least that's what i think my point was in the previous post.

Another good example is The Juan Maclean (also on DFA). That guy was in Six Finger Satellite, a punk band with synths and electronic flourishes, and he went on to make incredibly dancey music while the other members formed the Chinese Stars... a dance-punk band.

Is post-punk inherently danceable? I don't really think of dancing when the Fall comes on my stereo, but maybe i'm wrong.

And, would Dan Deacon, LCD, The Rapture, Liars, etc. be classified as post-punk because a lot of the ground-work had already been laid by punk bands. Or are they post-dance-punk? Am i barking up the wrong tree here?

And i was curious about mentioning This Heat... They're a little intense for the whole dance-aspect of it i think.

This Heat is amazing, mind you, but i just don't know if it was too influential with the dancey crowd. I think noise / minimalism / tribalism when i think of This Heat at least. Now i want to listen to This Heat, so thanks for reminding me to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:
And i was curious about mentioning This Heat... They're a little intense for the whole dance-aspect of it i think.

This Heat is amazing, mind you, but i just don't know if it was too influential with the dancey crowd. I think noise / minimalism / tribalism when i think of This Heat at least. Now i want to listen to This Heat, so thanks for reminding me to do so.

yeah, i would tend to agree that this heat is a little more avant-garde/tribal/noise than dance, unlike a band like liquid liquid. that being said, i would probably agree that they were an influence. i mean, it's hard to listen to their song "24 track loop" and not think dancy. but overall, i would probably hesitate to put them in this category. i guess you can make the argument though.

i think gang of four, talking heads, liquid liquid, and bands like are probably bigger influences.

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:
Is post-punk inherently danceable? I don't really think of dancing when the Fall comes on my stereo, but maybe i'm wrong.

And, would Dan Deacon, LCD, The Rapture, Liars, etc. be classified as post-punk because a lot of the ground-work had already been laid by punk bands. Or are they post-dance-punk? Am i barking up the wrong tree here?

Those were a painful to paragraphs to read.

I think the funny thing about where the discussion is right now is people are trying to figure out what bands are, genre-wise. When you say "post-dance-punk," I think what you're really trying to say is that certain artists are influenced by punk music, but aren't punk, and are making a conscious attempt to creating danceable, uptempo beats that defies the typical double-time gallop of punk. A genre that a band is is not nearly as important as what influences them and what they're trying to do with those influences. As far as I'm concerned all of these people are in the business of indie; they take established older genres and try to reinvent that genre with updated pop idioms and new, inventive transformations of aesthetic (e.g. No Age is taking punk, slowing it down, giving it more pop-infused surface melodies, and then running all of that through a garagy, shoegazy filter to make the whole thing sound new). In effect, bands that reinvent the wheel. Give me a rare glimpse at the obvious.

Which of course has nothing to do with IDM.

In reality, i don't know exactly what i'm trying to say at all... I'm trying to justify my starting this topic to begin with (I'm not even too sure of that, either).

I recognize IDM is not "Indie" Dance Music, but i thought that there's been such a trend this decade for post-punk to embrace a dance musical trend.

Case in point would be a band like Health (who actually kind of take cues from This Heat a bit), who just released a dance-mix of their self-titled album. The fact that this doesn't seem utterly bizarre is a good indication that dance and indie have become so hybridized that it's hard not to think of the two as sharing a similar aesthetic. At this point, you either fall in line with Folk/Free-Folk/Freak-Folk, sound like Pavement/Guided by Voices/"Classic" Indie Rock of the like, Are a duo, or play either post-punk informed dance music or straight up dance music.

I know i'm being reductive by the way. It just seems like the big movements of this decade are the re-emergence of Folk and the mending of dance and indie (not mainstream movements obviously).

Does that make any sense?

haha

what is this conversation doing in the idm thread?

the only thing I expect to see here is people shitting on the shitty name.

Actually, i thought it was a kind of clever-name. Get it? No, not going to work?

Anyway, I would shit on your name, but my name is Mike too.

So I'll just say you got me beat from both sides.

EDIT - Since people were going to "shit" on the "shitty name" of this topic, i decided to change it.

Thankyou, it was rather punny, actually, but when I pop into a thread titled 'idm' the last thing I expect to see is post-punk debates and mentions of Beck, Wire, and Daft Punk.

Thanks Mike.

Additionally, I'm still certain that we are all in agreement that 'Intelligent Dance Music' is a horrid name for a genre.

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:
In reality, i don't know exactly what i'm trying to say at all... I'm trying to justify my starting this topic to begin with (I'm not even too sure of that, either).

I recognize IDM is not "Indie" Dance Music, but i thought that there's been such a trend this decade for post-punk to embrace a dance musical trend.

Case in point would be a band like Health (who actually kind of take cues from This Heat a bit), who just released a dance-mix of their self-titled album. The fact that this doesn't seem utterly bizarre is a good indication that dance and indie have become so hybridized that it's hard not to think of the two as sharing a similar aesthetic. At this point, you either fall in line with Folk/Free-Folk/Freak-Folk, sound like Pavement/Guided by Voices/"Classic" Indie Rock of the like, Are a duo, or play either post-punk informed dance music or straight up dance music.

I know i'm being reductive by the way. It just seems like the big movements of this decade are the re-emergence of Folk and the mending of dance and indie (not mainstream movements obviously).

Does that make any sense?

I understand what you're saying. Those are two big trends in indie, sure. The problem is, you tried to wrap post-punk revival into your dance argument, which just doesn't work. Also, what about the tape-loop mafia (Animal Collective, Panda Bear, The Books, etc.) that is neither post-punk, dancy, or folk, and has more to do with electronica stuff than anything.

Actually, I'd say that Animal Collective and the Books are quite a bit Folky. I imagine I'm not the first to say AC are folky, nor the Books for that matter. The Books are a harder sell, but they have a definite folk thing in my opinion, especially "The Lemon of Pink," in its kind of cut-and-paste acoustic vs. electronica nature. Hell, "Don't Even Sing About It," is a pretty straight-forward folk song (for the most part). Same goes for "True Story of True Love," "There Is No There,"... In fact, i would argue they're much less dance than they are folk.

But i don't think they're folk-tronica for that matter (I wholeheartedly dismiss that genre... name me a band that fully embraces such an aesthetic and i will shut up).

Animal Collective, on the other hand, were kind of a go-to band of the Freak-Folk think in 2004 (barring Devendra that is). Hell, "Sung Tongs" is pretty folky at times.

And the entire Panda Bear album "Young Prayer" is a bit folky as well (not just because it's entirely acoustic, either).

I think i just confused myself.

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:
Is post-punk inherently danceable? I don't really think of dancing when the Fall comes on my stereo, but maybe i'm wrong.

I flail all five limbs about and start mumbling when I listen to the Fall....

quote:

Those were a painful to paragraphs to read.

oh, funny!

quote:

Originally posted by V:

quote:

Those were a painful to paragraphs to read.

oh, funny!

Was there a joke that went over my head? Does it involve the mispelling of two?

For dance-informed (more like raped) indie rock from this year, Pink Skull is essential.

Originally published at PopMatters:
Artist Name: Pink Skull
Artist URL: http://pinkskull.com/
Album Title: Zeppelin 3
Label: Free News Projects
Label URL: http://www.freenewsprojects.com/
US Release Date: 2008-04-15

Summary: If the DFA produced a Royal Trux/Mouse On Mars collaboration, it would forever rid the world of Klaxons.
Rank: 8
Born in a sea of heavy hallucinogens and laser beams, the debut full-length from Julian Grefe and Justin Geller is bound to simultaneously send trucker hat hipsters and candy ravers for a loop. Funky beats, congas, glitch, acid synths, and bizarre vocals tweaks coalesce into various incarnations of house, techno, breaks, indie rock, and noise as if the DFA were producing a Royal Trux and Mouse On Mars collaboration. Saying this sampledelic electronic album is not a mere collection of singles is an understatement. I have not heard this many influences channeled through such an exciting full-length experience since UNKLE's Psyence Fiction. Zeppelin 3 is the album to make everyone lose their shit at your next house party or outdoor festival. Forget the Klaxons, rave-punk is reborn anew.

Legal MP3 Download: "Crambodia feat. Ghostface Killa, Spankrock, & Amanda Blank (Pink Skull Remix)"

Hmm, thanks for the rec, Filmore, but that doesn't sound like my kind of music exactly. I'm more into the downbeat, Junior Boys-type dance-inflected indie music. Like Ready Fire Aim. That album is the shit.