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Slacker First Class
Posted
Folks,

Metacritic has reviewed a total of 11 books in the genre of Sci/Fi & Fantasy. The books were all published in 2004 and 2005.

I believe it is time for Metacritic book members to start a dialogue on an "All-Time List" for this important genre. I thought we could start our very own list and discuss why we think those books should be included among the 25 "must" reads for any serious sci/fi fantasy fan.

I started my list with the easy ones:

1. The Hobbit (J.R.R. Tolkien)

2. The Shadow & The Torturer (Gene Wolfe)

3. Ender's Game (Orson Scott Card)

I would love to see your candidates!

Thanks,

Aristotle
 
Posts: 12 | Location: USA | Registered: 20 May 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Jedi
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That's a solid start, Aristotle. I haven't read Wolfe for many years and ought to go back and revisit his work.

I'm afraid I'm not going to do much for you in terms of fantasy. I've not spent a great deal of time with the genre since the 80s, so I'm not all that conversant in it.

Here are five to keep things rolling:

1. The Lord of the Rings J.R.R. Tolkien
As much as I love The Hobbit, I think the sheer influence of its successor gives it the edge.

2. The Foundation Trilogy Issac Asimov
I'm probably cheating a bit here, but I believe Asimov intended Foundation, Foundation & Empire, and Second Foundation to be taken as a whole every bit as much as Tolkien did The Lord of the Rings. From the standpoint of literature, this is probably the weakest entry. Asimove wrote better novels, notably The Caves of Steel, but as with LOTR, Foundation's influence is too pervasive to be taken lightly.

3. Dune Frank Herbert
There is pretty much nothing about Dune that I don't love. Herbert manages to wrap high-concept ideas in terrific writing, which is not often true of the genre.

4. Neuromancer William Gibson
I reread this recently and was surprised at how well it's holding up. Not as a novel, it's splendid as a novel, but rather as a vision of the future. I read a quote from Gibson recently that when writing a novel of this kind one has the dubious pleasure of watching technology catch up with or go off in unexpected directions from your creation. The future is no where near as dystopic as Gibson suggested, but that was never exactly his point even if it was the most fashionable trope he brought to the table.

5. Phantastes Georges MacDonald
This is a tough addition for me. On the one hand, there's pretty much no J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis without MacDonald. On the other hand, influence and importance doesn't always mean easily read and enjoyed. If Asimov borders on being a bit too light, MacDonald is on the extreme other end of the spectrum. Phantastes is worth the effort, but it is effort.

Thanks for opening the topic, Aristotle. This should be fun.

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Posts: 1584 | Location: Bloomington, IN | Registered: 23 May 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Certainly Herbert's Dune is on the list. What an excellent novel.

I was ambivalent about choosing The Hobbit over LOTR. I suppose my decision was based on the fact that The Hobbit defined the entire fantasy genre, whereas the Trilogy popularized it.

On the other hand, Tolkien always asserted that the LOTR was 1 complete novel that was split into the Trilogy. I would be curous to see what other readers think. Hobbit v. LOTR.

I was also thinking about some of the "classics" in the genre, such as "War of the Worlds," "Journey to the Center of the Earth," "Conan the Barbarian," and other earlier entries.
 
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I still hold up 'I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream' as my favorite sci-fi short story. Don't know if it is inapropriate to add short stories here, but that is one of my favorites.

Also, I have a real fondness for Phillip K. Dick's final three novels, especially Valis,the first of the three.
 
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I am probably more inclined towards Wells' The Time Machine than War of the Worlds. I think the former is the better novel, but both are quality choices as are quite a few of his other novels.

Verne is equally hard to narrow down. I might be more inclined towards 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea in his case, but again there is so much to choose from.

Robert E. Howard and Edgar Rice Burroughs are both hard calls. I think both are key to understanding the genre, but neither author holds up terribly well for modern readers. They spun great yarns, though.

If you want to go back a ways, I buy Brian Aldiss' arguement from Trillion Year Spree that Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is a good point of genesis for Science Fiction as a genre.

With another nod to the oft-overlooked ladies of the genre, I'd add Ursula K. Leguin's The Left Hand of Darkness. When lists of this sort are compiled, The Dispossessed is usually the entry beside her name, but I think LHoD is the superior novel.

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quote:
I was ambivalent about choosing The Hobbit over LOTR. I suppose my decision was based on the fact that The Hobbit defined the entire fantasy genre, whereas the Trilogy popularized it.


Eh... I was under the impressing that the Trilogy was written first.

Anyhow, I love the genre, but I'm not sure I've read many of it's classics outside of Ender's Game (and a few of it's followers) and LotR + the Hobbit.


I reserve the right to be entirely wrong.
 
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The Hobbit was published in the late '30s, Mr. C, with LOTR following almost twenty years later in the '50s.

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That is so weird. I had always heard that 'The Hobbit' was written after 'Lord of the Rings'. As usual though, Lt knows what he is talking about. That is kind of disapointing to find out though, as I always liked the idea that Bilbo's story was incorporated into 'LOTR' even before he had actually written Bilbo's story.
 
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Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land would have to be up there. I find it difficult myself to choose the "best" of Philip K. Dick's work, but I guess I would consider A Scanner Darkly or Flow My Tears The Policeman Said. Same goes for Robert E. Howard, so many good stories especially The Tower Of The Elephant and Red Nails. Tolkien's work and Herbert's Dune go without saying. Gotta have some Verne and Wells on there, I recall loving Wells' The Invisible Man when I was much younger. I've always thought Gibson's Neuromancer was a little overrated personally. I'm sure there must be some fans of Fritz Leiber, Terry Pratchett and Arthur C. Clarke here who can give us some insight into their best work.


"If it were beneficial, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect." -Jesus, from the Gospel Of Thomas
 
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Folks, we have made great progress, and I see the Top 25 list as follows:

Clearly included in the Top 25:

Tolkien....The Hobbit
Wells......The Time Machine
Herbert....Dune
Verne......20,000 Leagues Under the Sea

Of course, making Lists is fun in-and-of itself, but hopefully
we can discuss why these particular novels have defined
the genre and are now imitated by others. For example, one cannot imagine the Dragonlance/Forgotten Realms paper mill if not for Tolkien. His model served as the paradigm for all of the D&D books and games that are now out there.


Titles and Authors for us to consider

Clearly, Asimov must be represented in this list.

1. Asimov.....I, Robot, Caves of Steel, one of the Foundation titles

By the way, there is no 'rule' that says an author cannot have multiple entries....

2. Burroughs.......

3. Card.......Ender's Game

4. Carroll....Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

5. Clarke......2001: A Space Oddysey

6. Dick....... ???? (My fav is the Bladerunner inspired Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?...although not a big seller or very significant in literature]

7. Heinlein....Stranger in a Strange Land

8. Le Guin.....Left Hand of Darkness

9. Lewis: The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe ....

10. Wolfe......Shadow of the Torturer [my personal favorite....which means I am biased and don't know if this should be included on this list....I think it will make it though)

OK, that's it for now....

Aristotle
 
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I was looking through my books last night and remembered a couple more good ones

The Sheep Look Up- John Brunner. (I prefer this to Stand on Zanzibar)

Also, the graphic novel Moonshadow was always a favorite of mine.


Forgot another one- Flatland.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: keylimetrev,
 
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I wont go into detail for each one.

1. The Golden Compass

2. The Subtle Knife

3. The Phantom Tollboth

4. Enders Shadow

5. Abarat

6. The Hobbit

7. A Wrinkle in Time

8. The Secret Garden

9. Enders Game

10. The Amulet of Samarkand

11. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

12. Redwall

13. The Giver

14. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe

15. The Magician's Nephew

16. The Silver Chair

17. A Series of Unfortunate Events - A bad Beginning

18. Animal Farm

19. Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH

20. Artemis Fowl

21. Phillip K. Dick's Short Stories

22. The Witches

23. Running out of Time

24. Eragon

25. The Borrowers

Honorable Mentions

The Time Machine

Treasure Island

The Moon of Gomrath

The Witch of Blackbird Pond

A Series of Unfortunate Events - The Reptile Room

Hmm... I will probably think of a few more I liked later.

Dune and The Foundation Trilogy I hope shall be added soon for I am planning on reading them over the summer.
 
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On my way home from Boston the other day I noticed that US Airline's magazine in the seat pocket had a list of top science fiction books. I think they were mostly ranked by influence on the genre, though. Dune was there, as well as Clarke, Asimov and a bunch of other guys I'd never heard of. I should have kept the magazine.


I reserve the right to be entirely wrong.
 
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U.S Airways Attache Magazine does not allow for direct linking to articles, but I thought the list Compman references is really very good and has some excellent thumbnail descriptions, so against forum policy I am quoting it here.

If the publisher is not happy about it, I will gladly accept a seat assignment next to a squalling infant on my next flight.

quote:
OUT OF THIS WORLD

Science Fiction at Its Best: 16 Reasons to Read

By Keith Ferrell

There is more to science fiction than what shows up on our TV and movie screens.

In translating science fiction from the written page to the big screen, filmmakers have skimmed the flash and bang and ignored the rest of the genre’s many other virtues. Which is a shame, because within those covers you can find worlds of wonder. Science fiction literature is rich in bold speculation, sharp social commentary, realism and surrealism, heartbreaking tragedy, broad and subtle comedy, acid satire, infinite perspectives, and tight-focus psychological exploration.

In other words, the genre of science fiction has it all. Real SF—true aficionados never refer to it as “sci-fi,” despite the visual media’s marketing of the phrase—is a literature of astonishing variety. One of SF’s boldest and most distinguished writers, Barry Malzberg, made this analogy: “It’s as great as jazz, as profligate, as wonderful.”

If you haven’t read real SF before, any of the following novels or anthologies offers a good starting place.

1 The Time Machine
H.G. Wells, 1895

This is the book that gave birth to modern science fiction, from the author who first explored many of its most enduring themes. Addressing the nature of change—political and cultural within societies, and evolutionary change over enormous expanses of time—Wells both anticipated and created one of SF’s central concerns: Where are we going, and what will happen to us along the way? His vision of humanity’s latter days remains poignant and profound—and as politically charged today as it was a century ago.

2 The Foundation Trilogy
Isaac Asimov, 1951-53

Originally published in magazines in the 1940s, this series redefined what would become the backdrop for countless SF novels, stories, and films: the vast galactic empire composed of thousands of star systems and their inhabited planets, and the nature of conflict and commerce among them. The series is as concerned with the nature of history as with the nature of the future, and that is part of its ongoing appeal. Asimov’s great contribution was the level of intellect he brought to SF, as well as his sense of history and of immense powers attempting to steer history’s currents.

3 Childhood’s End
Arthur C. Clarke, 1953

Clarke’s understanding of evolution and the place of life in the universe, as well as his vision of humanity’s transcendence of our origins, produced this visionary masterpiece. The final pages can make even jaded readers weep. What would happen if humans encountered another intelligent species, and how would we be changed? Clarke visited these themes repeatedly, and not just in print. His 1968 collaboration with Stanley Kubrick, 2001: A Space Odyssey, is one of the most transcendent SF films ever made.

4 The Stars My Destination
Alfred Bester, 1956

Arguably the greatest science fiction adventure novel ever written, Bester’s novel remains compulsively readable. The story of abandoned spaceman Gully Foyle’s escape and quest for revenge is played out against as relentlessly imagined and decadent an interplanetary future as you’ll find in any fiction, with a pyrotechnic ending unlike any other in SF or beyond. Science fiction does not get more colorful or exciting than this.

5 Stranger in a Strange Land
Robert A. Heinlein, 1961

Heinlein, widely regarded as the most influential SF writer since H.G. Wells, combined an engineer’s eye for detail with a moralist’s nose for hypocrisy in this satirical novel. The book’s theme is that of a new religion engulfing a human raised on Mars. Adopted by the hippie movement of the late 1960s (for a while it became the campus book), Stranger has held up well. Its satire remains sharp, and many of the book’s political and religious barbs still sting.

6 The Man in the High Castle
Philip K. Dick, 1962

“What if?” is science fiction’s most central question. But by asking “How do we know?” Dick produced a body of work dealing with the nature of reality and our perception of it. This novel’s world, in which the Allies lost World War II, is vividly depicted, and characters are well developed. High Castle is one of the key novels of alternate history, a subgenre of SF that is among the most popular. Dick is the most frequently filmed SF writer, whose work you’ve likely seen in Blade Runner, Total Recall, and Minority Report. Yet he is infinitely superior in print.

7 Dune
Frank Herbert, 1965

The bestselling of all science fiction novels, Herbert’s masterpiece (also made into a widely panned movie by David Lynch in 1984) is a model of closely considered world-building, and continues to capture new readers. The Dune world Arrakis and its inhabitants (human and otherwise) are so thoroughly and completely imagined in detail that it becomes as real as or more real than our own. Dune’s concerns—environmental degradation, control of limited resources, and fanaticism—will hit home with any contemporary reader.

8 Dangerous Visions
Edited by Harlan Ellison, 1967

The centerpiece of science fiction’s mid-1960s reinvention of itself—often referred to as the New Wave—Ellison’s anthology challenged many of the genre’s most prominent writers to break through the taboos and constraints that had come to dominate SF, and to produce adult stories for adult readers. They did, and their work still stands—as does that of Ellison himself; his own stories are well worth seeking out.

9 The Left Hand of Darkness
Ursula K. Le Guin, 1969

Gethen, the world known as Winter, is the setting for Le Guin’s tale of an anthropological investigation into the nature of an odd and unsettling society in which gender is changeable. The narrator carefully probes ever more deeply beneath the surfaces of Gethenian society and in doing so examines the nature of the self, and the relationship of gender to society and to self. A beautifully written novel as well.

10 Dying Inside
Robert Silverberg, 1972

David Selig was born a telepath. But his ability to read minds is beginning to fade. Silverberg’s novel spans normal 1940s–70s society and culture, with telepathy the only speculative element. Dying Inside employs a classic SF theme to explore the nature of talent, the burdens of responsibility, and the price of failure and surrender. Silverberg applied the literary techniques of contemporary fiction to SF—and produced a novel that ranks with the best of late 20th-century fiction.

11 Helliconia Spring
Brian W. Aldiss, 1982

Set on a planet whose seasons last for centuries, this epic from one of England’s most distinguished writers reminds us of the centrality of nature to individual life. The life of culture and the dire effects of displacing nature form the central theme. The Helliconia series is exciting, filled with enormous battles and desperate personal struggles. It is also wise, informed by Aldiss’s gifts for addressing large philosophical questions and small human details.

12 The Book of the New Sun
Gene Wolfe, 1980-83

Being SF’s most literary, and in some ways most religious, masterpiece, the multi-part novel by Wolfe feels more like fantasy, with strange and shadowy landscapes, aging and immense buildings, arcane and poetic language. Yet it is science fiction of the highest order, a tale of a young man’s progress through an astonishingly evolved landscape, populated by strange beasts and intricate cultures. Set so far in the future that the sun itself is dim, Wolfe’s book requires careful reading, but rewards you on every page. It is currently available in two volumes: Shadow and Claw and Sword and Citadel.

13 Neuromancer
William Gibson, 1984

Published a decade before most of us were using the Web, Neuromancer brought SF into the computer age with a vengeance. Anticipating hackers and silicon warfare, and above all the then-nascent computer culture, Gibson and his book played a large part in actually defining that domain. Cyberpunk, the movement sparked by Neuromancer, became for a time the dominant form of SF. Its visual influence can be seen in movies such as The Matrix, but Gibson’s work, filled with ideas and with images, supersedes them.

14 Hyperion
Dan Simmons, 1989

With enough bang to sink a dozen Hollywood “sci-fi” flicks, Simmons’s novel and its sequels returned SF to those roots so superficially tapped by Hollywood: worlds in conflict, universes threatened by unknown powers, fleets of starships, rogue artificial intelligence, time flowing backwards, physics and metaphysics, cosmic and personal mysteries inextricably intertwined, and more.

15 The Science Fiction Century
Edited by David Hartwell, 1997
16 The Year’s Best Science Fiction
Edited by Gardner Dozois, 2005

Two massive volumes that provide historical perspective and contemporary insight into where SF came from—and where it is heading. Hartwell offers close to four dozen stories, from Wells to millennium’s turn, while Dozois’s annual collection (now in its 22nd year) collects hundreds of thousands of words of brand-new stories.
 
Posts: 1584 | Location: Bloomington, IN | Registered: 23 May 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I've read a mountain of SF.

To be fair, my tastes skew very much to the hard side, an unlike many fans of the genre, I'm not an equal appreciator of Fantasy...if there's not a legitimate science element, I'm usually not interested.

But with that Caveat, here are my top dogs, in know particular order...

Childhood's End...Might not be the best, but is the quintessential SF Story...the first one I'd encourage a tyro to go read.

Blood Music - Greg Bear...Best novel by the best SF writer of the last thirty years. One of the all-time mind blowers, first and still best book on nanotech.

Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch...The Best Dick, where God decides he doesn't like us.

A Fire Upon the Deep...Vernor Vinge. Best Space Opera I have read in years, maybe ever.

Hyperion - Dan Simmons...A vastly popular novel that takes a Cantebury Tales approach to it's narrative to create an epically diverse work. The Priest and Professor's tales are the best.

Timescape - Greg Benford...Stunning time travel novel/Hard physics novel with great hook ending. If you don't know already, read before someone tells you. Best/deepest portrait of every day lives of working scientists, in all their different professional, academic, and bureaucratic shadings, that I've ever read.

Tiger, Tiger - Alfred Bester - Also called My Stars, My Destination...1950s Space opera with a brutal, hard edge. Why Hollywood hasn't gone after this one is beyond may...has aged better than anything by Gibson.

A Canticle for Leibowitz - Walter Miller...the second evolution of society from just after the first Nuclear War, up to the beginning moments of the second.

A Case of Conscience - James Blish...brilliant exploration on the role of faith as it pertains to our rational decision making process.

334 - Thomas M. Disch...Gritty, one of the best written books SF has ever produced...Sad collection of shorts on countless losers in a near future/overpopulated New York in which the lives of almost all have been deadened under the weight of a massively expanded welfare bureaucracy. As good and depressing and dark and insightful an argument against the soul killing aspects of socialism/welfare as one will ever find. "Bodies", the second short in the series, is one of the all time greatest shorts in all of SF.
 
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That's a daunting list, Illinq, and one that seems as indebted to the New Wave as Hard SF.

I find gender roles in Clarke's classic years as jarring I do Asimov's, but Childhood's End is an undeniable classic and a remarkably mature work for its time.

Despite admiring his short fiction a great deal, I've never tackled Blood Music. For some reason I've noted elsewhere, I've not been devoting enough time to novels within the genre since the early 90s. I think I'll go pick up a copy today. Thanks for the reminder.

A Fire Upon the Deep is a notable exception to the above. I read it when it was published and twice more since. As with music, I tend to prefer the benefit of some time before hanging the moniker "classic" on any work, but AFUtD demands an exception.

The Stars My Destination is glorious, but I'd just as soon Hollywood keep their ham-fisted mitts off, thankyouverymuch. And isn't Bester and Gibson kind of an apples and oranges comparison?

If classics are the best a genre has to offer, a masterpiece transends its genre. As with The Maltese Falcon is a masterpiece that transcends Mystery, A Canticle for Liebowitz is a masterpiece that transcends SF.

A Case of Conscience deserves a nod as much for its shocking and uncompromising ending as it does the excellent qualities you point out.

Given your list, Illiniq, are you a fan of Delany? He would seem a logical favorite for you, especially the short story "Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones."

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I really don't read a lot of Sci-Fi/Fantasy, but I have read a lot of the "classics." One title that seems to be conspicuously absent is The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury. What do you all think?
 
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quote:
Originally posted by PRG:
I really don't read a lot of Sci-Fi/Fantasy, but I have read a lot of the "classics." One title that seems to be conspicuously absent is The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury. What do you all think?

My first favorite book from my first favorite author, PRG.

I loved The Martian Chronicles from a very early age. Bradbury was the first author with whom I made the connection, "Hey, if I like one of his books, I might like more of his books."

Boy, did I.

I don't always think of The Martian Chronicles when I think of novels since it's more a collection of interrelated short stories, but it certainly belongs on my short list of classics/favorites. I love the lyrical quality of Bradbury's writing and "The Million Year Picnic" is certainly one of the most poignant takes on post-Apocalyptic fiction in the genre.

Thanks for the reminder.

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quote:
Given your list, Illiniq, are you a fan of Delany? He would seem a logical favorite for you, especially the short story "Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones."


LinnTate

Excellent points yourself.

To be honest I've fallen off in my reading the last few years as I've become a father, and all I've read Delany are Nova, which I enjoyed but didn't love, and a few shorts including Cascade Point. But definitely an author I want to read more of...

Of course, in looking at my list, I realize there are several other books I want to champion...Recognized Classics like Book of the New Sun and Fifth Head of Cerebus (took a class with Gene Wolfe once, without question the smartest human being I have ever met, unfortunately sometimes you have to match his intellect to correctly interpret his stories...no easy task)...some of the female centered 70s works of John Varley, particularly Ophiuchi Hotline...Speaker for the Dead, which I've always found to be a far richer story than Ender's Game...and on and on it goes.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Illiniq:
Of course, in looking at my list, I realize there are several other books I want to champion...Recognized Classics like Book of the New Sun and Fifth Head of Cerebus (took a class with Gene Wolfe once, without question the smartest human being I have ever met, unfortunately sometimes you have to match his intellect to correctly interpret his stories...no easy task)

A class with Gene Wolfe? Literature or engineering? Regardless I am so very envious.

The Book of the New Sun is another that I have neglected. The Shadow of the Torturer came out when I was twelve and as you have rightly pointed out was a bit much for me no matter how precocious I might have fancied myself. I guess I've remained intimidated by it ever since.

I also share your admiration of Varley, though on the whole I've not given him nearly the time he deserves. I went on a pretty serious reading jag of his work around the time Steel Beach came out, but not so much since.

You're also right regarding Speaker for the Dead being the far superior work to Ender's Game, but I think Ender would lack a great deal of depth without the first novel and suspect it would be far more difficult to find his character as compelling or sympathetic.

As for championing another worthly inclusion to any top 25 list:

The Space Merchants C.M. Kornbluth & Frederick Pohl A seemingly broad tale of advertising run amok cloaks one of the most densely satirical novels the genre has ever produced. I fear that Kornbluth's early death robbed him of any opportunity of receiving the recognition he deserved from the popular readership and academia alike.

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