friends and seinfeld are awesome, of course finished though. there's always dvds anyway...

How isn't Curb Your Enthusiasm (HBO) even mentioned, not only on this thread, but in all of metacritic forums? Are you unaware it's there, or are you simply unimpressed? I haven't watched any of the shows that have been mentioned except Chapelle's Show (good) and CSI (needlessly gorey, redundant, uninteresting, idiotic cast, and they always deliver stupid catch phrases before Every (EVERY) comercial) oh and I have, of course, seen the Simpsons/Family Guy, but I haven't felt inclined to viddy either of those in years. The last episodes I saw of the Simpsons were around the 300 mark and were apalling. The characters had seemed to have become less and less likable, and more like 2D vehicles for a bunch of not-so-clever college kids' one-liners. Homer's stupidity had gotten to the point where it was just stupid. When it started to have all those self-contained ironic references, it was clear the golden years of innocence were long gone. Oh and of course, I have seen South Park, which is great and ...maybe even relevant? Curb Your Enthusiasm has amazed me in a multitude of ways more consistently than any other show, save Seinfeld and Twin Peaks. But then again I watch less than an hour of tv a week. If that.

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I can't get into any television dramas. Even the HBO series which are supposedly the best. They require too much patience and are really not all that satisfying. I rarely ever turn on my TV and if I do it's to watch The Daily Show or mXc. Two mindless shows that are perfect examples of what television is good for. Killing brain cells and enjoying it.

I watched the season 2 premier last night of deadwood.I actually watched it at 6 and at 9 on hbo east and west channels.The first time i missed a few minutes.

Man what a headache of a first episode.I dont think they could have made it better.I just cant wait to see how the season pans out.As it looks this may be a very bloody season...with a few stars maybe getting killed off.

On the same foot i saw a preview for a new show on hbo called rome?It seemed like it is in the same vain as most hbo shows...sex...blood...gore, stuff like that.I am sure i will check it out.

I was looking for a discussion regarding the Wire, then noticed a "By Far the Best Show in TV" thread and immediately knew I had found what I was looking for.

It's really impossible to describe how good this show is. Compare it to network shows like CSI and the Law and Order's, and it becomes clear how pathetic these serials are. The Wire DOES require patience. In fact it requires a lot of patience. The second season lays out about 6 different subplots, 30-something characters, and doesn't even connect them for the first half of the season. It's hard to watch that type of thing once every month or so like South Park or the Daily Show, but taken as a whole, you can't deny The Wire's superiority.

Also I wanted to say that I don't understand these people who say that HBO shows are just now worth the time. You're essentially admitting that HBO shows are better but that you just don't want to take the time to discover it for yourself. Buy the DVD! Watch them whenever you want! They are better on DVD anyway because you can catch yourself up on what you missed.

Hmm...with HBO, since I don't get HBO, I generally have my father tape a few episodes of it for me then decide if I want to keep going. I did so for Deadwood, Rome, and the Wire, and decided not to follow those.

The Wire seemed interesting but not my thing (Trying to be all street-cool in a Grand Theft Auto-like way). Deadwood seemed a bit too much like it was being fashionably crude, and Rome seemed a bit too modernized for my taste (Like the characters were 21st century Americans in Roman clothes in Roman buildings with Roman values).

I haven't really liked an HBO show other than Sopranos since the first season of Six Feet Under.

Granted I haven't watched every episode of them, but production values aside, I think I get more from one of the best 25% of CSI and Without a Trace episodes than I probably would from following those HBO shows. (And CERTAINLY from Battlestar Galactica. I tend to think of Battlestar Galactica as an HBO show that happens to be on Scifi).

And if anyone's thinking of accusing me of not giving the show enough time, keep in mind that network shows only get *one* episode to impress me. HBO shows get three or four.

I respect your position about not getting into the HBO shows Bob, but I can't understand how anyone could like CSI over shows like The Wire and Deadwood and Rome (for a reason other than "HBO shows take too long to get into"). I watched maybe the third episode of CSI I'd ever seen last Thursday. It had two plotlines...one about a dog who chewed his owner's throat after the owner had shot her husband up the nose with an invisible bullet, and the other plotline was about a fat guy who ate himself to death. Nothing much happened with that second plotline, but we did get to see lots of pie-eating footage, which is always good for a few seconds of entertainment. Anyway, both these mysteries were solved in under 45 minutes, and everyone lived happily ever after (except the fat guy, he was dead). I honestly think that if given two hours and a six-pack of Coors, I could write one of these things. On the other hand, imagine how much skill, time, and creativity it takes to write a season of the Wire in which dozens of characters and plotlines have to be developed. It takes people who are actually talented to make something like that and not just a bunch of Bruckheimer sycophants.

Well, that wasn't a very good episode of CSI. If you tuned in any of the previous three weeks you would have seen a very good episode. I got lucky because my first episode was what is now considered one of the best episodes of the series.

I respect your opinion as well, but I would question your assumption that serial shows are inherently superior to episodic shows. It doesn't matter to me whether or not a plot carries over between episodes as much as whether or not those plots are interesting and well written.

Serial shows probably have higher to go, but they still need the chops to get there.

Also, maybe I just didn't watch enough Wire, but it seemed like the kind of show that focused more on the violence and various tactics the characters use and less on the characters. I prefer shows that focus more on the characters, like Sopranos.

The best episodes of CSI and Without a Trace focus on the suspects and the victims more than just the investigative process.

That's one benefit of episodic shows. If you write a bad plotline -- it only ruins one episode.

It's practically impossible to really determine the Best Show on television. Even the Emmy Awards don't have a category for "Best Show."

There are news shows, documentaries, made for television movies, entertainment specials, comedies, dramas, day-time soaps, reality television, educational programming, even food shows. In order to even come close to best show, one would have to really come up with a consistent measure of what one means by best. I don't think it's possible. This thread really stretches the discussion to almost impractical and useless.

I always felt similarly to Bobthespirit about this show until I was able to borrow the season 1 DVD from a friend of mine. I watched the entire season in a couple of days and it instantly became my favorite show. When you can watch the whole thing and see the big picture, in my opinion makes the show 100% better, which explains why you can't watch a single episode and get addicted to it.

Easily the best character development, best dialogue in any television show I've EVER seen.

Makes CSI, without a trace, bones and every other totally formulaic crime drama.. seem laughable with their perfectly hollywood-wrapped story lines.

Just wanted to bump this thread...I've been watching The Wire: Third Season in preparation for the premiere of the fourth season in a few weeks. I really think that The Wire has taken over the Sopranos as my favorite TV show ( ). It just keeps getting better and better, seriously...if shows like Desparate Housewives and The Sopranos often feel like elaborate soap operas, The Wire feels like a Greek tragedy but set in Baltimore and with over 30 regular characters.

The Wire is SO complicated and intricate, I get frustrated sometimes. Mainly because I can't devote my full attention to it. It's a great, well-written show. I'll try to keep up with it this season.

Did you see the third season pE? I really think it was the best front-to-finish season of television ever made, and this is coming from someone who takes his television very seriously.

Anyway, September tenth...it is on my calendar.

I lost track of Season 3. I need to catch up with that one. I watched one and two, but I missed several eps in the middle of 3 and then quit. HBO's been re-running it, but I forgot to DVR it. Maybe I'll just rent it.

Let's move discussion of The Wire (the topic of this thread, although it's hard to know that) over here. I'm closing this one down. Sorry, RayRay, whereever you've gone...