No posts on last week's show? I thought it was interesting to see Tony grapple with the issue of Vito's alternate lifestyle. One more point, and this is totally out of left field, but in the beginning of the episode, when Tony was sitting by the pool, I had a strange feeling the ducks are going to return before the end of the show.

I liked last week's episode.

It seems to me like the writer wants to impose his own views on homosexuality on the episode, but can't find a way to do it while realistically portraying mobsters.

So he made Tony seem genuinely conflicted about the issue, and rationalize his hesitation to kill Vito on terms that are okay for a mobster. "Who will raise his kids?" "He's the best earner!"

Though I wonder..what percentage of guys in prison actually practice sodomy. I heard the percentage of men who are forcibly sodomized is around 10-20%...and I don't quite buy that a guy like Tony would have resorted to sodomy on a short prison sentence of only a couple years.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobthespirit:
Though I wonder..what percentage of guys in prison actually practice sodomy.

That's one of those things I don't really want to know. That being said, I doubt mobsters would have much of a problem with being raped in prison. They could just have the rapist wacked!

What exactly were the writers' "views on homosexuality" Bob? I think Tony's opinion made perfect sense. Tony has never been as prone to knee jerk reactions as Paulie and Christopher, so it makes sense he would think of things in more complex terms than just "Vito is gay: he must die." My prediction is that Vito will come back to New Jersey toward the end of the season, and Tony will have to have him killed at that time.

The writer's views on homosexuality are Dr Melfi's and Meadow and Finn's views.

Tony bringing up the 'Next thing people will be having sex with dogs' thing that Rick Santorum said seemed like he was trying to portray anti-gay sentiment as silly and ignorant.

I agree it made sense for Tony, but...I found the prison thing and a few of his comments kind of forced.

I didn't really get the impression that the writers were pushing any particular view of homosexuality, but maybe that's just because I have a certain viewpoint.

I didn't really like tonight's episode. Artie has always been the whiniest character on the show, and tonight he more than lived up to that reputation. He wants to be a gangster, but can never quite follow through. He wants to screw all these young hostesses, but can never quite do it. He wants to be a big-time businessman, but he can never convince his wife. Pretty pathetic, and this episode just rubbed our faces in it. Chris's trip to Hollywood was pretty funny, but hopefully it was just a one-time excuse to get Ben Kingsley on the show, and we won't have to deal with any more Chris-in-the-movies plotlines, although I do think there is something brewing between him and Tony wrt Adriana. Chris feels like Tony owes him, and unless Tony morphs into Adriana, that debt can never really be repaid.

quote:

Originally posted by paxsoprano:
I didn't really get the impression that the writers were pushing any particular view of homosexuality, but maybe that's just because I have a certain viewpoint.

I agree with Pax. I didn't get the feeling the Vito storyline was pushing a particular 'agenda' (I think the idea of a gay agenda is silly, at best) but merely doing what the Sopranos has done from the git-go: examining some social issues from the perspective of a certain tradition (the mob). I think the fact that Tony, despite being grossed out by gay sex, is troubled by the requirement that he 'take care of' Vito simply shows the mentality is changing. Same thing goes with the storyline about the Muslims and the credit cards...

I do think they've painted Vito as a sympathetic character, which might add fuel to the flames of the 'gay agenda' argument, but Adriana was a sympathetic character and we all know how that ended up.

I liked last night's ep. I liked both the Artie storyline and the Chris storyline, but I agree that the Kingsley thing seemed a little forced. It was just funny, though, and so I forgave them that. I wonder if this begins to plant the seeds of another Chris/Tony showdown, as the rest of the family begins to crumble...

Wow, I really liked tonight's episode. When that ugly chick from ER began unbuttoning Tony's shirt and Tony stopped her, I just thought it was so sweet! However, I am concerned that Vito is headed toward a grisly demise...they wouldn't keep showing him in New Hampshire if he weren't going to enter the New Jersey scene eventually. After all, this show is called The Sopranos, not Vito Eats Johnny Cakes in New Hampshire. And also I wanted to add that I totally agree with Tony wrt AJ...grow up kid. "But you said the part in Godfather was your favorite scene"...shut up dumb ass. Get a life. And I hate it when I am waiting in line somewhere and the people who are supposed to be working are talking on their cell phones. Strike 3 AJ, strike 3.

Agreed. Another great episode in what has been a fantastic season. I kinda felt bad for Vito for the first time. AJ is a dipshit and more annoying then Artie. Plus, he handles a knife like Fredo handles a gun. I was also surprised to see an episode without Chris, Paulie, or Sil. Either way, Phil is probably gonna whack Vito or die in the process.

I thought it was a great episode too. Starts to suggest Tony actually is changing, and he has that added motivation to change. The only way to save AJ is to set a better example.

I hope Vito gets away. I'd like for once, the person who looks all season like he's going to die, not to die.

Predictability is bad. And it's the Sopranos' greatest vice as a series.

What do you mean Bob? I guess it can be predictable in some ways (you knew Carmela would get back with Tony, you knew Tony would get better, you knew Adriana was going to die), but these are more signs of knowing how the show works than bad writing. It would be like saying 24 is predictable because you know Jack Bauer will kill the terrorists. I think Sopranos does a great job of keeping us off balance, like with Tony's separation from Carmela a few years ago and his recent run-in at the hospital.

Also regarding this episode, I try to read the weekly reviews/recaps of the Sopranos from ew.com, and this last week the writer person said something I thought was quite insightful...many of the scenes between AJ and Tony now are so effective because we have seen these two grow up together. We were there when Tony squirted whipped cream into AJ's mouth, when AJ got expelled, when AJ was at football practice, and now we see in this last episode AJ staring into the mirror about to have a panic attack just like Tony has so many times before. This season is so good because our past experiences with these characters make their choices and stories all the more compelling.

Sopranos has great writing, but predictability is a minor flaw. It brings the writing from an A, down to a slightly lesser A.

It's not just Adriana. It's also...Mikey, Richie, Pussy, Ralphie, Jackie Jr, and Tony Blundetto.

Nothing here for awhile? So add Vito to the list of "Has Beens". Sil may have gotten in over his head this time and the build up was well placed for a dynamite lead in to next week. As far as predictability, I can honestly say that with very few episodes left, I have no idea where this thing is headed. All out war? Possibly Tony turning on Sil to maintain friendship with Phil? Highly unlikely on the second one but I'm simply stuck when trying to foresee the future here. There are alot of routes this show can go in the next few weeks and I must say, I'm intrigued.

I think there is only one episode left, and it will of course try to resolve this gang war/dispute thing. What do you mean Sil has gotten in over his head? I saw the Vito thing coming for a while, he was doomed. Tony and Phil will probably resolve their dispute, but beyond that I have no idea.

The Vito thing was predictable and long overdue. It was however a personal killing and that of a made man. Sil's little outburst could cause big trouble for him and the Jersey Boys if Phil catches wind of it. No motive = No suspect though. Still, it obviously happened for a reason and it wouldn't have been included without follow up. Personally, Sil was always my favorite and he is the one character I would hate to see get greased.

So what did everyone think of the finale? It was similar to last year in that they implied a war might be coming, but ended in a compromise instead. Will we ever see the Sopranos going to the mattresses??? In another Godfather reference, AJ was truly struck my a thunder bolt wrt that construction accounting chick. I wish most women were that straightforward...anyway, I am happy for AJ. It looks like he has found something to live for after all.

A lot of the people I know who watch the Sopranos have been upset about the lack of big violence or twists this season, but that's not really what the Sopranos is about. Above all else the Sopranos is about family, and I think the sixth season really did the family thing well: we are seeing Meadow slowly getting disinterested in Finn, AJ is growing up, Carmela is selling out her moral indignation for a new house. Last eight episodes start next January. Maybe we'll finally see a war? Will Tony and Carmela move into their new house finally? Will Chris get killed? Will Chris stay with this bimbo wife he has now?

Always been a big fan of Sopranos. It hasn't drawn me in as much this year as before, but part of that is because they keep killing off or pushing to the side the most compelling characters (Except Tony Carmela and Chris).

The writing is as good as it's been except for the first season, but the ensemble isn't as strong.

Chris started growing on me early this season but after the last few episodes, I really wouldn't mind seeing him go. For starters, he is an imbecile. I don't look forward to another long break in episodes but at least there will be more to follow. I do like the direction that AJ is headed and he doesn't bother me as much as before.

quote:

Originally posted by Art Vandelay:
Always been a big fan of Sopranos. It hasn't drawn me in as much this year as before, but part of that is because they keep killing off or pushing to the side the most compelling characters (Except Tony Carmela and Chris).

The writing is as good as it's been except for the first season, but the ensemble isn't as strong.

I see what you're saying with the ensemble. The biggest difference between these last few seasons and the first season is that now there seem to be more Paulie episodes, Chris episodes, Uncle Junior episodes, whereas in the first season everything moved together, as one.

As a lover of this show, I am new to this dialogue and find the perceptions interesting and enlightening. As a newcomer it seems as though participants in this conversation are writing more about the individual characters than the show as a whole. The plots for me became more redundant and predictable. But the characters are taking on more individuality. I do think there has been an attempt to "stretch" Tony through his new lease on life. Thus, the reason for his crisis of conscience in acting slowly toward Vito. Still, I think paxsoprano was right. Tony, though essential to the show, is no longer the most interesting character. A.J. is now far more interesting for me personally. To me, Carmela is still arguing with Tony, but now "AJ is Tony." The same seething anger that has brewed beneath the surface of Tony toward his mother now stirs in AJ. However, AJ's love/hate relationship is with Tony. He is becoming his father's son. Just a Carmela is able to deal with a more tolerable Tony, AJ is now beyond her control. This keeps Carmela in the same role as moral anchor for the family trying to save everyone from themselves. Still, her acting when she chose to leave Tony was as good as it gets. That one episode offered insight into her character whereas, it could take many for some of the others. Though this show offers much of the same family and personal issues in each episode, it allows the various characters to bring those issues uniquely to life. This makes it one of the best television shows in years.

They're baaaaaack! Although it seems that our resident Republican Pax is MIA, we can still carry on this conversation. I am pretty damn excited for the last season. I read a spoiler a few days ago that said that a main character is gonna get whacked in the first two episodes. We'll have to wait and see.