From the delicate piano balladry of Tidal , to the raucous demented circus ringmaster tone of Used To Love Him off Brion's version of Extraordinary Machine, can anyone really deny that Fiona Apple is the new Tom Waits? I can't wait till she hits her 30's and 40's, and we get her Rain Dogs and Frank's Wild Years...

I get jokes.

It wasn't a joke, and if linking to pictures of people needing oxygen is your idea of one, I reckon I'm probably better off not living in Philadelphia...

He's having a heart attack, actually.

We just shoot each other here. Cuba is much safer.

Well, whatever it is, you can't get away from the fact that responding to a legitimate contention with a stupid picture is cheap. Disagree by all means, but at least do so with a semblance of intelligence. What are you doing in the "Alternative" section if you just ridicule any idea that doesn't tally with your own? The post was made to maybe generate an interesting discussion, not to force it's originator to have to deal with nerdish snickering...

I never snickered. The heart attack was real.

No pictures here. Just the facts:

Tom Waits put out threee amazing records in the span of 1973-1976. Fiona Apple has MAYBE put out one and half good records in her career. Her career, by the way, features three albums over ten years. Waits put out five from 1999-2004. Build up a body of work, Fiona, and we'll talk.

If your "legitimate contention" is that she's the new Tom Waits because she plays piano and genre-hops, I'm betting there are plenty of other 'new Tom Waits' out there with better track records than Fiona's.

Conor Oberst is the new Bob Dylan. Sufjan Stevens is the new James Taylor. Jeff Tweedy is the new Lou Reed. I Love You But I've Chosen Darkness is the new She Wants Revenge.

This is fun. I could do this all day...

Yes, Tom Waits' first three records were fantastic. So were Fiona Apple's. I'm going to ignore the sarcasm inherent in your quotation marks and explain that it's precisely my contention that as she releases more albums, I feel we will see a diverse body of work comparable with Waits' consistently magnificent output. It's nothing to do with because she plays piano, but simply because of two differing, unique worldviews filtered through jazz melancholy, Kurt Weill style theatrics, and the way off-kilter percussion and brass are used so heavily.
I don't know how to respond to the thing about Waits' five albums between 1999 and 2004, because I don't think the value of music has anything to do with how long it takes to create it...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank Valeron Esq.,

quote:

Tom Waits put out threee amazing records in the span of 1973-1976. Fiona Apple has MAYBE put out one and half good records in her career. Her career, by the way, features three albums over ten years. Waits put out five from 1999-2004. Build up a body of work, Fiona, and we'll talk.

And pE doesn't get/like/care for Waits, by the way.

No pictures here, just the math:

Closing Time > Tidal

The Heart of Saturday Night > When the Pawn

(We'll skip the essential Nighthawks at the Diner since it's a live album, and I don't want any whining.)

Small Change > Extraordinary Machine I or II

np: Tom Waits, "New Coat of Paint"

When Fiona releases her "Swordfishtrombones", we'll talk.

Good man yourself m.leland . You might have encountered a few false starts along the way, but 24 hours after I posted it, you've managed to come up with the only thing I wanted from the beginning - an intelligent response. So from the 3 Tom Waits albums mentioned, and the 3 Fiona Apple, which are your favourites?

quote:

You might have encountered a few false starts along the way, but 24 hours after I posted it, you've managed to come up with the only thing I wanted from the beginning - an intelligent response.

DAMMIT!

*Sigh*

Small Change is one of my all-time favorites. Fiona wouldn't crack my top 500, if I were bored enough to actually make such a thing.

Less talk, more crazy.

(Hey, wait a second, you didn't mistake > for an arrow, did you? It's a greater-than sign.)

quote:

I'm betting there are plenty of other 'new Tom Waits' out there with better track records than Fiona's.

I don't know about the better track record, but Jesca Hoop sounds promising.

Artist Tom Waits, a fan of Jesca Hoop's songwriting, says her "music is like a four-sided coin. She is an old soul, like a black pearl, a good witch, or a red moon. Her music is like going swimming in a lake at night."

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Valeron Esq.:
I'm going to ignore the sarcasm inherent in your quotation marks...

It's not sarcasm...it's disbelief bordering on bweilderment. It comes both from the general inanity of your topic and the fact that you are slinging insults and ad hominems while wielding a tone of superiority. In the span of this topic, you've insult Philadelphians, you've called m. leland "cheap" and his post "stupid" and you've condescendingly credited him for FINALLY saying something intelligent after 24 hours. I'll avoid replying in kind. But, honestly, I'm flabbergasted. You compare Fiona Apple to Tom Waits but have the nerve to call m. leland stupid? Wow.

Jessica Simpson is the new Neil Diamond. Philadelphia rules!

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Valeron Esq.:
From the delicate piano balladry of Tidal , to the raucous demented circus ringmaster tone of Used To Love Him off Brion's version of Extraordinary Machine, can anyone really deny that Fiona Apple is the new Tom Waits? I can't wait till she hits her 30's and 40's, and we get her Rain Dogs and Frank's Wild Years...

You're a madman.

Here's what has me bewildered;
m.leland responds to a post he disagrees with with nothing but a tasteless picture of a man dying. philosopherEric presents his own opinions on Tom Waits' and Fiona Apple's first three albums as "the facts." To present one's opinions as facts is the most ridiculous example of "wielding a tone of superiority" I've ever seen.
Then, S.L. O'Robot calls me a "madman."
I'm new here admittedly, but this is not "discussion" folks.
Yes, you're right philosopherEric, I called m.leland "cheap" and his post "stupid," and I had no right to do so. But the last thing I wanted when posting an innocent enough theory on a music forum was to be met with an image of a man having a heart attack by way of a reply. m.leland thought it was funny, but I thought it was rude and unnecessary, and I'm entitled to express that, although perhaps I did so a little emotionally. I apologise. But, such an image is not at all what I want / expect to see here, and if you dismiss that as overly touchy, that's your problem.
Finally philosopherEric, you deride me for "slinging insults", and then breezily refer to my topic as "inane." Practise what you preach why don't you?
Happy Saint Patrick's Day to all...

First of all, my claims about your topic being inane were a reply in kind to the way you treated m. leland. Act rudely, and get treated rudely.

Secondly, if you don't find his reply humorous, that's fine but it doesn't justify personally attacking him or the good people of Philly. I found his reply quite funny. If a picture of a person having a heart attack is shocking to your sensibilities, you may be a little too delicate to be on the Internet.

As for my opinion being the 'facts', you do EXACTLY that when you say "can anyone really deny that Fiona Apple is the new Tom Waits"? Pose it as a question all you want, but you are essentially saying "it is undeniable that..." So, as far as I can tell, YOU can spout off your opinion as fact but if someone else does it, it's not legit. And, once again, I made factual reference to the size of a body of work. I find it silly to compare a prolific artist with dozens of records (and several that are brilliant) over 30 years to one who has released exactly three in ten.

I'm not going to comment on this post any more. Maybe you'll have better luck with others. For the record, I don't think you're a madman for starting it, but I do think you've insulted Tom Waits.

Guys, let's not be so quick to chase off someone who seems like he could be a good addition to the board. As I see it, In his first two posts, Frank tried to start conversation about Tom Waits in this thread, and Lyle Lovett, Vic Chesnutt, and Lambchop over in country. Even if I don't agree with his assessment of fiona apple, I'm glad to have someone new on the board who wants to talk about anything other than whatever indie album is popular at the moment. He seems like a pretty reasonable guy to me, and has admitted that he probably responded poorly to Leland's joke. Again, it is refreshing to me to see something other than 'best album of 2006' being discussed, so lets not chase this guy away so quickly.