If there is such a genre of 'grunge' music do you think Nirvana were the most influetial in this genre? AND is there any nivana influenced bands around now?

Of course they are. But not necessarily because they were some groundbreaking band like the Rolling Stones, Beatles, Elvis, Zeppelin, etc., but because since about 1991, there has been a massive talent drain from mainstream music. Ask anyone who the major rock band of the era is, and you get no answer. In the 80s, you might have said Guns 'N Roses or Metallica. In the 70s, you might have said Zeppelin, etc. I think the most influential garage band was the Ramones, the most influential punk bands were the Sex Pistols (UK) and Black Flag (US), etc. But the most influential grunge band??? Who's the competition? Pearl Jam? Soundgarden? Greenday? Since about 1991, the important bands of their eras have been drowned out by the emergence of bad Rap & the same 'ol hip hop, boy bands, and teenie-bopper crap. The youth of today doesn't demand quality from their music industry like everyone did in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's. Why is that?? Record execs. going for the quick buck. MTV rulig the landscape and following the "Making the Band" format. All Crap.

So yes, Nirvana was a very big fish in an extremely small pond of talent. So sure, they win by default.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Becks:
If there is such a genre of 'grunge' music do you think Nirvana were the most influetial in this genre?

---

Nirvana certainly influenced later artists more than indie Seattle bands like Mudhoney or Tad, but the 'grunge sound' can be traced straight to The Melvins. In that respect, The Melvins were incredibly influential, and Nirvana would have undoubtedly sounded much different if not for The Melvins' inspiration.

Hold on- did I answer your question or start a new topic? I need to lie down and rest my brain for awhile.

I think Nirvana suck to be honest. Sure they were influential, but for all the wrong reasons. They could hardly even play their instruments.

Alice in Chains - now there's a 'grunge' band that can beat off any pretenders, whether Laynes dead or not. Definitely the most original sound to come from that era, and possibly the best singer of the 90's (not counting Mike Patton) too.

quote:

---

Alice in Chains - now there's a 'grunge' band that can beat off any pretenders, whether

---

Alice in Chains were undoubtedly the kings of adolescent grumpiness in the early '90s. Recycled Sabbath riffs + slick production + mumbled lyrics about angry chairs = platinum album sales

I was going to leave this alone, but when somebody says a band couldn't play their instruments, that usually sets off alarms for me. Let's see, Cobain was a lousy guitarist? Do you think Hendrix was a lousy guitarist? Have you ever heard the Nirvana Unplugged album, and if so, you think that Cobain's acoustic versions of his songs are feeble? Novoselic and Grohl were one of the most powerful rhythm sections in rock history, especially working off Cobain's guitar. (Of course, Grohl has since proven himself to be a gifted multi-instrumentalist.)

I admit that I thought Nirvana was a bit overrated, but they made it possible for you to hear most of your favorite bands which came out later. When I say overrated, do I mean less-than-great? Hell, no, but there were a few albums in 1991 and 1993 which I thought were better than "Nevermind" and "In Utero". However you feel about them, poor craftsmanship should not be cited as a reason. Also, Cobain sang with an honest intensity unmatched at the time. If you don't believe me, check out that "MTV Unplugged in New York" album.

I've stayed out of this one, too, mostly because I've made some snotty claims about Nirvana elsewhere on these forums, notably that they're OVERRATED.

Having said that, though, I think Cobain was a good (not great) songwriter. I think greatness might have come, but the longevity wasn't there to push him to the next level.

He was also a good musician and singer, with a great rhythm section. A few of his songs were, as Mark points out, were classics of 1991-1993. I think his songwriting is most obviously strong, as Mark said, on the Unplugged record. "Teen Spirit," "All Apologies," and "Heart Shaped Box" are amazing, and others are almost as good.

Why are they overrated? I think the claims that Cobain was "the voice of a generation" is far too strong. He's nowhere near the level of a Dylan, a Lennon, or Springsteen, or other "voices of a generation." He was certainly IMPORTANT: Nirvana killed off hair metal, helped birth alternative radio as a mainstream (commercial) format, and he was the antecedent to some of today's indie rock, nu-metal, etc. But let's not over-estimate his importance.

And I deduct points from him for foisting Courtney Love on us. That was almost unforgivable...

I've never liked the idea that Nirvana seems to be so lazily slopped into the sub-genre of "grunge". If anything, Nirvana sounds like a natural progression of punk music, yet simultaniously veering towards classic-rock inspired guitar playing. In Nirvana's music you can hear influences of the Buzzcocks, Pere Ubu, Meat Puppets, REM and Husker Du, just to name a few.

Grunge on the other hand, seems to almost completely forget, (or ignore), the fact that punk ever "happened". While Nirvana's rhythm drives their songs at a near-dancable pace, the bass and drumming of most other notable grunge bands serve only as backdrops to the traditional two-guitar attack. When listening to Alice Chains or Pearl Jam, and to a lesser, (in every sense of the term), extent, Candlebox, Creed and Collective Soul, the influences seem to Black Sabbath, White Snake and Metallica (in format only).

In fact, if Nirvana originated in Boston as opposed to the Seattle area, they probably would not even be considered grunge, and would instead be rightfully placed along side bands such as the Pixies, Mission of Burma and Dinosaur Jr.

As for influence, et cetera, it's hard to imagine what the current popular music landscape would look like if "Smells Like Teen Spirit" never dropped. Would hair metal still rule? Hard to say, after all, we've still got Bon Jovi and Velvet Revolver. But it I had to predict what a non-Nirvana world would look like, my guess is that there'd be a lot of techno.

i dont know if nirvana was the most influential grunge band or not. but i do think they were the best and most talented. other bands, alice and chains, pearl jam, etc. have played important (sadly) roles in the development of bands on the radio today.

Other people have made this point, but Nirvana, as often as it's called grunge, really isn't. It's more like evil power pop than anything.

Also (and don't get me wrong when I say this, as Pixies are my favorite band), I fail to see the connection between Nirvana and Pixies. Pixies did not invent the quiet verse/loud chorus technique. Many bands have done it before.

The reason I, and so many others, bring up the Pixies, REM, Meat Puppets and other bands that don't sound exaclty like Nirvana so frequently when talking about Nirvana is because Kurt Cobain would mention those bands himself when asked to name his influences.

True, but publications are always talking about how Nirvana couldn't have existed without Pixies and you can clearly hear their influence in Nirvana's music and that Pixies invented the soft-loud dynamic. Maybe it's just me, but I hear none of the above.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Crash:
True, but publications are always talking about how Nirvana couldn't have existed without Pixies and you can clearly hear their influence in Nirvana's music and that Pixies invented the soft-loud dynamic. Maybe it's just me, but I hear none of the above.

---

I can still recall hearing "Teen Spirit" for the first time at the college radio station I was DJ'ing at and asking the guy playing it "Is this some weird new Pixies thing? Is this a Doolittle b-side I missed?" I had heard OF Nirvana at that time, but I hadn't listened to Bleach. A few weeks (maybe a month?) later, a pop culture phenomenon was unleashed...

I think the passage of time has made Nirvana's sound seem like it was more original than it actually was. I'm not saying the Pixies invented the quiet/loud dynamic...I'm just saying that I heard a TON of the Pixies in Nirvana when Nevermind first came out. But Nirvana certainly took it to a whole new level.

Of course Nirvana is the most influencial grunge band. But are they the best? That honor goes to Stone Temple Pilots.

I have a soft spot for STP. They were that 90s band that was on radio and was actually good. Their first three albums are bulletproof, and their last two are surprisingly solid. Back before I got the internet and started expanding outward with my tastes, STP were my favorite band ever. I have not heard Velvet Revolver, and I do not plan on listening to it.

I'm listening to Tiny Music... Songs From the Vatican Gift Shop right now. It's been over a year since I last heard it. It's like being transported back to 1996. It's not exactly dated, just something completely reflecting its times. The guitars are very "alternative" and they sometimes put effects on Weiland's voice, but there's this organization to everything that prevents it from being a mess. The jokey experiment "Art School Girl" and the "poetic" "stream-of-consciousness" lyrics throughout the album are kind of embarrassing, but the band always redeem themselves after every cringeworthy moment. They didn't exactly have a stereotypical sound, so their albums were never monotonous. On this album, they perfected their knack for catchiness. STP were the greatest product of the 90s, and I hear them in Queens of the Stone Age and, more recently, in Death From Above 1979.

I still totally back Tiny Music... and I urge someone else to back me up on the quality of this very 90s-ish album and on STP in general.

I agree with u buck.

Being from seattle I should know a bit...but i would not go as far as to say any of the bands where influential on any of todays musicians...maybe?

I am not the hugest fan of grunge...buti do agree that there were many formidable bands...and nirvana was the one that stood ou the most.Good or Bad.

I would group about 10 in the same category for me...as...a "phase" that was quickly grown out of.

I certainly dont pull out old albums and jam out to them...no way...i think i pawned them all.

So yes i do think nirvana is extremely overrated...but i dont really care.

i think as far as pure influence pearl jam wins they have been copied a lot more mostly cause they are more indebted to classic rock

This message has been edited. Last edited by: curefreak,

I think curefreak might be right actually, because if you listen to the latest waves of interchangable, manufactured pesudo-grunge bands, they all sound like Pearl Jam.

Hell, I can't even listen to Pearl Jam anymore because it reminds me of that shit.

hee hee im glad to see someone agrees with me on here wasnt pearl jams last two cds were in a more experimental veins werent they? it reminds me of all the hair metal bands in the 80s that tried to rip off a piece of zeppelin and failed miserably,

For me, Kurt Cobain provides the answer to this question:

"I was just trying to copy The Pixies".

quote:

---

Originally posted by Buck "Sweetie" McGuck:
Of course Nirvana is the most influencial grunge band. But are they the best? That honor goes to Stone Temple Pilots.

I have a soft spot for STP. They were that 90s band that was on radio and was actually good. Their first three albums are bulletproof, and their last two are surprisingly solid. Back before I got the internet and started expanding outward with my tastes, STP were my favorite band ever. I have not heard Velvet Revolver, and I do not plan on listening to it.

I'm listening to _Tiny Music... Songs From the Vatican Gift Shop_ right now. It's been over a year since I last heard it. It's like being transported back to 1996. It's not exactly _dated_, just something completely reflecting its times. The guitars are very "alternative" and they sometimes put effects on Weiland's voice, but there's this organization to everything that prevents it from being a mess. The jokey experiment "Art School Girl" and the "poetic" "stream-of-consciousness" lyrics throughout the album are kind of embarrassing, but the band always redeem themselves after every cringeworthy moment. They didn't _exactly_ have a stereotypical sound, so their albums were never monotonous. On this album, they perfected their knack for catchiness. STP were the greatest product of the 90s, and I hear them in Queens of the Stone Age and, more recently, in Death From Above 1979.

I still totally back _Tiny Music..._ and I urge someone else to back me up on the quality of this very 90s-ish album and on STP in general.

---

yep tiny music was there best and most original sounding and they sound like they had fun making it