Well, I hope everyone has been exposed to these guys. I really don't even want to try to pick a best since they are ALL SO GREAT! But, that being "said", I have no reason to change my mind that "A Ghost is Born" is numero uno. I listened to all of them today, when I wasn't watching "Pygmalion" (awesome) and "All About Eve" (only "great"). I also tried to add some pertinent threads to MC, had one of the most personal conversations ever in person with my best friend, took my parents (in-laws) to lunch, said goodbye to my daughter, who'll be gone for a week, and touched my wife in various non X-rated places most of the afternoon.

Wait a minute; back to the thread. What do you think is the best Wilco album, and why? I may not have a better reason except that it's the newest, but I think that that's a damned fine reason.

I posted this somewhere else, but LT, you didn't see it or maybe just didn't respond. My point was that Jeff Tweedy sounds like Peter Case, at least on the first verse of "The Late Greats." Yay or Nay?

I've spent the morning, mark, with Peter Case's Torn Again on random play with "The Late Greats" dropped in to the mix. You're right. Tweedy sounds remarkably like Case on that track. That probably helps explain why I love that track so much.

As regards the topic at hand, I've gone on record as saying Summerteeth is both my favorite Wilco and their best in my opinion. I understand other tend towards Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and I think an argument can be made for it.

This review from Muze, Inc., though, is just baffling:

quote:

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Watch out, Ryan Adams. Your rivals are effortlessly inhaling the indie cred you desire. While Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was Wilco's first attempt to disassociate themselves from the alt country genre, Ghost pulls it off.

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Okay. I guess I understand where the critic is going with the dig on Ryan Adams, but I take serious issue that 1) Wilco has been "attempt[ing] to disassociate themselves from the alt country [sic] genre," and 2) even if they were that YHF did so more than Summerteeth.

The aforementioned "The Late Greats" alone says this is a silly review.

Now Playing: "Baltimore" Peter Case Torn Again (Vanguard) <-- BTW, thanks, mark, for prompting me to spin this again. It's been too long.

Let me get one thing straight before I get to listing Wiclo albums; Ryan Adams isn't fit to carry Jeff Tweedy's jock strap.

Anywho, here's how I'd rank the Wilco albums:

1. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - Maybe it's Wilco's Exile on Main Street, more likely the first YHF.
2. Summerteeh - Tweedy establishes himself as the modern day Brian Wilson by acting like Neil Young from On the Beach.
3. Being There - Like most double discs, could have made one hell of a regular length EP, that is, of course, if the mirrored structure of tracks didn't necessitate a double CD.
4. A Ghost is Born - A logical progression of ideas from YHF, but still a bit narcisistic in the sense the Tweedy can't seem to decide who he likes more, Kraftwerk of Bob Seger.
5. AM - Not bad alt-country fare, but nothing compared to the other albums.

I would normally let your comments slide because they don't really speak to me AT ALL, except, you see, I keep reading these reviews that say that "a ghost is born" is somehow indebted to "krautrock", and all I can think of is, that a bunch of young kids are somehow obsessed with Can and Faust, etc., and other allegedly "influential" German bands, when nobody who cares about "rock and roll" really cares about them. I don't care if you read some long article about Tweedy saying that he was obsessed with "krautrock" (I find that ridiculous, no matter how might you post that it's true).

Bob Seger...that's ALMOST interesting, but equally INCOMPREHENSIBLE. Where, exactly, does this stuff come from? Whatever YOU think of "a ghost is born", it's far superior to anything mentioned (or implied) in the previous post. I still stand by it as numero uno in the Wilco canon (and I still say Wilco is more influenced by CVB than BS.)

PS- Maybe this is why I question your thought processes... "Exile on Main Street" has sucked for at least 30 years ( and will continue to do so.)

Geez, mark, why don't you just pull a knife on him? (and extra credit if you identify from which film I'm shamelessly cribbing that quote)

The comparison to Neil Young is interesting to me in that I was just listening to On The Beach Saturday. I hadn't thought about it before, but there's certainly some merit there.

Perhaps it's the fact that I've never spent a great deal of time listening to Krautrock, but I just don't hear it as the pervasive influence on AGIB as a few reviews suggest. Perhaps the upcoming Can reissues will set me straight.

Now Playing: CNN's American Morning

At the risk of mark cutting me with his words, here's my ranking of the Wilco canon...

1. Summerteeth: This was pure genius, in my estimation.

2. Being There: A grand move by a middling alternative band: a double album that didn't NEED to be a double, but filled with great songs. A nice "F YOU!" to the music biz.

3. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot: Why third? My love for the first two is undying. YHF is like the woman you married...you love her forever, but you always think, in the back of your mind, about the first and second girlfriends, when you were a little younger, wilder, the doors were slightly more open...

4. A Ghost is Born: mark's love for it notwithstanding, this wouldn't be the first Wilco I grabbed for if the request was "play some Wilco!" I've grown to love it more (and being the fourth best Wilco is still better than being, say, the best Muse record) but I'm still always going to pull from the first three before this one.

5. A.M.: I loved Uncle Tupelo, and this was an extension of that era, so it holds a place in my heart, but I always thought Son Volt's Trace was the better of the post break-up records.

A few of the guys I worked with in the record store listened to Krautrock, and I never "got it." I can hear echoes of it (slight ones) in the processed beats on a few of the songs, but I wouldn't attribute a huge Krautrock influence any more than a bunch of other influences (Neil Young and Brian Wilson are both nice ones) that you would expect from a guy well-versed in the history of popular music, a music geek to the core.

My impression is that the Brian Wilson-isms of Summerteeth (which still linger) were in large part due to the influence of Jay Bennett, whose solo work still has that sound.

Now mark, before you completely assassinate my feelings and your integrity, let me specify a few things. First, the Kraftwerk/Bob Seger comment was targeted mostly to the track "Spiders (Kidsmoke)", one of the more complex songs on the album, and in my opinion, the best. Set up as two interchanging movements, the first sounding like the German techno forefathers, the other sounding like the tasty licks stemming from the Silver Bullet Band. If you can't see the similarites, try actually listening to Trans-Europe Express (I recommend), or, I guess Live Bullet.

Second, why were no comments geared towards my critique of Ghost centered on it being narcessistic or a natural progression of ideas? How very "W" of you to focus on one aspect of the entire post.

As for your claims about Exhile, we can only assume that you have never a. heard the album, b. driven around the south in the summer time, or c. both.

Personally, Summerteeth is my favorite Wilco album, but I was doing my best not to confuse "I like" with "is best". If those two concepts were the same, then the Red Sox with easily win the World Series.

I know, I'm supposed to be the even-tempered one who stops fights, not starts them. Sometimes, all this goody-goody stuff gets stale and I need to rattle a few cages (it doesn't matter if I'm the one inside or outside), so I have been doing that lately. I'm trying to juice up certain discussions, and it has worked, at least temporarily.

Does that mean that I don't believe what I posted? No. Does it mean that I only addressed what I wanted at the time? Yes. Does it mean that I haven't heard "Exile on Main Street", "Trans-Europe Express", and the entire Bob Seger oeurve (including "Live") many, many times? No, and all of them when they came out originally the first time (on vinyl). Does it mean that I've never driven southeast of Oklahoma? Yes. Does any of this discussion mean that you or I can assasinate the other's or our own feelings or integrity? Not on my part, and I assume you'll agree.

You've basically got two of the most informed members here covering your (non-)bloody back, and if I have the chance, I'll do so in the future. It may not have seemed like it in the original post, but I respect your emotions and opinions. I just have read so many discussions of what I consider important works of admittedly pop art "blown off" by flippant name-dropping, that that's what I took from the post initially, and I certainly didn't bother to "dig deeper" before I responded.

Wilco has always had references to many of the artists you referred to, but I actually believe "agib" is the closest they've ever come to Neil Young. Did they showcase a liking for him in the past? Sure, but this album goes past liking to downright hero worship. Also, Camper van Beethoven and Wilco sound closer than ever before on their new releases. That's about it. Later, Gators.

I don't see the Krautrock influence as working anywhere except for "Spiders/Kidsmoke," but the beat does sound like something Kraftwerk put together for Tweedy & co. But then you hear Beatles-isms like "Hummingbird" and you think "well, no, this really has nothing to do with Krautrock at all." Which is the point- the oft-misquoted interview with Tweedy actually had him saying that the band were moving away from the "Krautrock-influenced" YHF by making AGIB!

My ranking:

1. Being There - Draws quite a few parallels to the White Album, as here Wilco makes a double album, tries new things, and churns out great song after great song.

2. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - A bit too arty for its own good, but for the seven glorious minutes of "I Am Trying to Break Your Heart," it's all forgiven.

3. A Ghost is Born - Everyone complains about "Less Than You Think," which admittedly drives me nuts, but song for song, this is a good album.

4. Summerteeth - Not awful, but way overrated. They ditch the diversity that they had on their last album in favor of uptempo Sgt. Pepper crap.

5. A.M. - Boring.

I hope people remember to consider Billy Bragg & Wilco's "Mermaid Avenue" and "Mermaid Avenue Vol.II". The latter is especially tremendous to me and ranks with the best Wilco albums for damn sure.

If you do that, you might also need to add in the Minus 5's Down With Wilco and the Loose Fur record.

I'd certainly give the BB/Wilco records some consideration for the top three in my list...

I fear I must offer a dissenting view, mark. As much as I treasure both Mermaid Avenue albums, Billy Bragg and especially Woody Guthrie share as much credit on those releases as Tweedy and Co., which makes them ultimately something other than Wilco albums. They're certainly worthy of note and praise, but I cannot personally include them when ranking Wilco's best.

Ah, painfully specific, seemingly pointless, almost arbitrary rules...truly the stuff of which fandom is made!

Now Playing: "Tiny Dance" Elton John Madman Across the Water (Island)

LT, I don't think there's any need for dissent. My point is that if you've liked Uncle Tupelo and Wilco all along, or if you're just getting exposed to them now, make sure to check out those "Mermaid Ave." albums, if you haven't. I think their quality is comparable to Wilco's; I'm not suggesting anyone change their rankings to include them.

I agree that Woody is the overriding genius on those albums, but the arrangements, vocals and musicianship are all Billy Bragg and Wilco. I'm thinking that someone who isn't even into Wilco could hear them (especially Vol. II) and become interested in Wilco and/or Billy Bragg. I love all the Billy Bragg-sung songs on the albums, but "Secret of the Sea", "Someday, Some Morning, Sometime", and "Remember the Mountain Bed" sound amazingly like Wilco originals (if you didn't know any better.)

quote:

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Originally posted by mark f:
My point is that if you've liked Uncle Tupelo and Wilco all along, or if you're just getting exposed to them now, make sure to check out those "Mermaid Ave." albums, if you haven't.

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In this, there can be no disagreement.

I'm hearing good things about Wilco's contribution to the Spongebob Squarepants soundtrack, "Just A Kid," but I've not yet heard it. Later today, I reckon.

Now Playing: "Watching the Detective" Elvis Costello & The Attractions Armed Forces (Rykodisc)

I'm with both of you on this.

LT hits it right...the arbitrary rule is merely that we were making a list of the best WILCO and not the best Wilco-related project.

mark's point is certainly good...those who come to this topic to find out about Wilco would be remiss if they did not check out the two Woody Guthrie records. I think a lot of that great stuff can be attributed to Woody, and some to Billy. There was a cool live disc that Billy was selling on his tours a few years back that had his band, The Blokes, backing him on some of those tunes and it was quite good. But I'm a pretty big Billy Bragg fan, so I may be biased on that one...

Side projects included, I'd rank them as follows:

1. Summerteeth
2. Being There
3. Mermaid Avenue 1
4. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
5. Mermaid Avenue 2
6. A Ghost is Born
7. AM
8. Down With Wilco
9. Loose Fur

I'm with you, Mark f. The more I listen to a ghost is born, the greater I think it is. Perhaps not more important than YHF (it isn't), but song for song, it may be better, sans the migraine-inducing 12 minutes of static following Less Than You Think, which is otherwise a wonderful track.

Without further adieu, my top Wilco albums (I don't have them all)...

1. a ghost is born
2. Yankee Hotel Foxtror
3. Being There
4. Mermaid Avenue, Vol. 1
5. Summerteeth
6. A.M.

Still, as time progresses, YHF will be recognized as THE Wilco album. It marked a huge departure for the band (akin to Kid A, though not nearly as dramatic - and it opened Wilco up to the rest of the world). And I mean, it IS a great album... Maybe I'm just really into a ghost is born for the moment, but as it stands, I can't listen to anything else really. It's one utterly amazing record.

The one-two punch of YHF and a ghost is born is almost overwhelming - Wilco is on their way to becoming the greatest rock n' roll (or alt-country, whatever) band still making music... At least, I think so. ANyone else with me???

Oh, ye poor unfortunate Tweedy neophytes. Many brilliant songs gushed from the hose that is his brain before he turned into Moby Jr.

Top 9 Jeff Tweedy Albums:

1. Uncle Tupelo, March 19-20, 1992
2. Uncle Tupelo, No Depression
3. Wilco, Being There
4. Uncle Tupelo, Anodyne
5. BBragg & Wilco, Mermaid Ave. II
6. Wilco, A.M.
7. Golden Smog, Down By the Old Mainstream
8. Wilco, Summerteeth
9. Golden Smog, Weird Tales
10. BBragg & Wilco, Mermaid Ave. I

...and I file the rest of his ‘work’ under the category of “pretentious weepy-man techno for middle-aged Rolling Stone Magazine subscribers,” as should you.

quote:

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Originally posted by Megatron:
Oh, ye poor unfortunate Tweedy neophytes. Many brilliant songs gushed from the hose that is his brain before he turned into Moby Jr.

Top 9 Jeff Tweedy Albums:

1. Uncle Tupelo, March 19-20, 1992
2. Uncle Tupelo, No Depression
3. Wilco, Being There
4. Uncle Tupelo, Anodyne
5. BBragg & Wilco, Mermaid Ave. II
6. Wilco, A.M.
7. Golden Smog, Down By the Old Mainstream
8. Wilco, Summerteeth
9. Golden Smog, Weird Tales
10. BBragg & Wilco, Mermaid Ave. I

...and I file the rest of his ‘work’ under the category of “pretentious weepy-man techno for middle-aged Rolling Stone Magazine subscribers,” as should you.

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Since the topic was "Best Wilco", I neglected to mention any Uncle Tupelo, but I would certainly adjust my list if we're talking all things Tweedy. Of course, the supposition that we're Tweedy neophytes seems par for the course for you here Megatron. We were just following the thread and its "arbitrary rules" as discussed above. But, for the sake of argument, I'll put aside what I perceive as smugness and respond in kind:

1. Uncle Tupelo: No Depression
2. Uncle Tupelo: Anodyne
3. Wilco: Summerteeth
4. Uncle Tupelo: Still Feel Gone
5. Wilco: Being There
6. Uncle Tupelo: March 16-20
7. Wilco/Billy Bragg: Vol 1
8. Wilco: YHF
9. Wilco/BB: Vol 2
10. Wilco: AGIB
and so on...

I wouldn't put the Golden Smog records on the list, although I enjoy them, because there's not as much Tweedy apperent on them, as a whole, as on UT or Wilco records.