I am currently researching on the topic of 'grunge'

With the topic being the influences of grunge on the different generations (baby boomers, X generation and todays teenagers)

i would be extremely greatful if you just voice your opinion about grunge and how it has influenced your views... on anything.. life, family, government anything

and please state which generation you are from..

thanks you for your time

You might want to specify things more clearly if you want adequate answers. How are you defining the Gen X'ers? Anyone who is not a teenager today or a baby boomer?

As someone who is very likely in the Generation X camp, I can't say that grunge music has influenced me in any significant way. I don't take my views on politics, the family, or government from musicians.

The music I started with was stuff derivative of grunge, and grunge is what I found the first time I went backwards to the influences...

So as a gen-Y-er who didn't start listening to music till 1996, I'd have to say...grunge formed my original concept of music.

Of course, that slate was wiped clean in 2001 when I picked up Beatles and Dylan records.

I was 24 when Kurt Cobain died. I remember where I was when I heard it on the radio. I had emotional ties with Nirvana back then, Cobain's lyrics seemed to voice my thoughts. I could understand him, but also, I didn't want to drown like he was doing. Soundgarden, Alice In chains were favs back then. But shortly after his death, musically I moved on. It was a scene, and a passing one for me. I grew(I think) in my music listening and seem to have an extreme range to what I now listen to. Althouth,today, 80% of my tastes venture into non-lyric songs/albums, they to me are truly the most emotional to me. Grunge to me, is a scene from the past that I put no emotional time into now. I haven't played Nevermind/In Utero for years, and probably couldn't listen to them all the way through. Unplugged.....yeah. I can take the other 'grunge' bands in spurts and that's the way it is.....

Great topic...

quote:

Originally posted by philosopherEric:
You might want to specify things more clearly if you want adequate answers. How are you defining the Gen X'ers? Anyone who is not a teenager today or a baby boomer?

As someone who is very likely in the Generation X camp, I can't say that grunge music has influenced me in any significant way. I don't take my views on politics, the family, or government from musicians.

yeah thats basically it.. anyone who was alive when grunge was at its peak.. and was there when it was all happening.. i cant clearly define what generation X is... from what i understand.. its just teenagers at the time.. you would probably be 20-26 ? not sure..

The Teens.. would be people like me, droned into grunge (myself..teen obessed with nirvana)but would not be considered generation X because we were not alive when the grunge sense was happening..

Baby Boomers.. The parents of the generation X'ers.. i read in articles.. they choose ot be ignorant of that fact they X'ers were rebelling (article on boomers and grunge)

philosopherEric.. just a quesiton for my assignment.. where you into the whole grunge scene ? where your friends ? know anyone who just 'changed'?

The Furnace Is Fiery thats the thing i am missing out.. the full force of Kurt Cobains death.. i would be listening to grunge now and my understanding of the lyrics would be totally different yet.. i think the influence of the music and lyrics would be somewhat the similiar.. ive only started listening to nirvana 2 years ago.. i would say it has definatly changed the way i view life

also for example nirvana - polly.. when i first heard it.. i didnt know the story behind yet.. i felt disturbed about what was happening.. his lyrics are powerful.. for a generation X'er they would understand the background.. hence they would feel the lyrics, riffs, music on a different level from what i would.. all i have to work with is other people's interpretations on songs.. despite all this as i mention before it did influence me on many levels..

thanks for the quick replies.. the assignments due in 5 weeks.. more replies and thoughts would be greatly appreciated thanks again

Well, I would still rank Nevermind and In Utero as two of my favorite albums, but back when my musical vision didn't go farther back than grunge, they were far and away my favorites.

I don't like Ten very much anymore though.

Again, to clarify, are you talking about a particular moment in the era of grunge? Or the whole era, which seemed to be at its high point in 1992 and sort of died with Cobain?

As to my connection to grunge, I can say a few things:

1. I was a college radio DJ when grunge "broke" and had already been familiar with the bands of the genre before it had a label. I liked some of the Sub Pop bands, had seen Nirvana in small clubs, and thought that the Screaming Trees were, by far, the best of the lot.

2. I really didn't know anyone who "changed" because of grunge, but I was in my early 20's when it hit big, and most of my friends were already fairly settled, in terms of personality and character traits. I had a few friends who really liked those bands (alot more that I did) but nobody who went beyond the average person liking a band.

3. I do recall the day Cobain died. I had been on the radio the night before and had slept late. When I woke up, the news was on the radio and local stations (including mine) were playing tributes to him. I had no emotional reaction to the news, beyond feeling like it was unfortunate to his loved ones.

4. The only Nirvana records I own I held onto because of autographs...a copy of Bleach on white vinyl with a band autograph circa 1990. And an advance copy of Nevermind with the band's autograph from 1991. I've not listened to either in ages. I still have my Screaming Trees records, though. And I've really enjoyed the Pearl Jam best-of that came out last year.

I still hold some of Cobain's songs close to my heart, and regard InUtero (along with NIN's Downward Spiral, although not Grunge, but dark)in my top 15 for the 90's. In Utero seems to slip further down as time passes, as I'd rather listen to or re-identify my 90's with happier stuff like Stereolab, Bjork, Flaming Lips, etc. Some of his great songs are just tough to listen to now. All Apologies, I think is his best song ever. Pennyroyal Tea, Rape Me, Something In the Way...great tunes that were real, but seem harder to listen to after a suicide. Come As You Are will always stand out and be listenable because it is a strong song.

Because of his on-going stomach troubles(I can relate) Pennyroyal Tea hits a nerve. Whenever it is on I just get lost in the song and all I can hear is his voice...so much emotion..."give me a Leonard Cohen afterworld" followed by "I'm a liar and a thief" great lyrics on what he struggles with, and, also how I felt. He was roughly 1-2 years older than me, so from Bleach to his death he wrote some heartfelt songs for a generation that needed to lash out at that particular time. Heck, I've been in a moshpit 3 times in my life, and it was a great release I tell you. Nirvana was one of them. Toronto,1993.

Hey cool, thanks again for the quick replies

philosopherEric;
I have not considered your question yet, so I had to discuss it with my teacher... the assignment will concentrate on the whole era of grunge, from the humble beginnings to the tragic death of grunge.
You were a DJ at your college, did you have talk back ? did people call in voice their opinions on anything related to this thread ?

The Furnace Is Fiery
Cobains death influenced your on a more personal level? I listen and read his lyrics(when I don't understand it) and I strongly agree with Cobains power, his bueatifully crafted words work together to express things that are so trivial in life and those issues that affect or influence us in some manner

more questions for anyone who can bother to answer dont need to answer all.. just quote which on you are going to asnwer then type away

Can you just state which generation you are from ?
What is your interpretation of 'grunge' ?
this is for my assignment, i plan to list each persons different understanding and own personal meaning of grunge..
Cobains death... why did grunge end after cobains death ?
Also what where your views of the heavy metal and techno of the time ? was grunge a musical relief from what was considered 'pop' or 'mainstream' ?
what other music genres did you listen to ?
do you think there are any bands out there today in mainstream music which might mimic or mirror the same or similarstyles as nirvana or any band from the grunge era ?

quote:

Originally posted by Bobthespirit:
Well, I would still rank Nevermind and In Utero as two of my favorite albums, but back when my musical vision didn't go farther back than grunge, they were far and away my favorites.

I don't like Ten very much anymore though.

hey sorry.. i couldn't find the nirvana album review.. maybe i wasnt looking hard enough hmm i went to the site and did a search for 'nirvana' and only found a short paragraph on it ?

just tell me what you think about nirvana personally and incorporate it with your reviews

also what generation are you from ??

...my album reviews? I started writing reviews like three weeks ago and only put new ones there so far.

But I do rank 'em at #4 and #6...

(I'm 22, I think that's the older end of gen-Y)

Given that I was 7 when Cobain died, I'm willing to bet that I fall into your "teen" category. Somehow I don't think that's why grunge wasn't much of an influence on my life. It seems to me that grunge, especially Nirvana, was pretty much pure emotion. Not much else. It couldn't make any kind of an impact on my life because there was nothing there to make an impact. It was like one of those incredibly sad movies that has no real substance. Oh, and when you look at Nirvana, well, we'll just say that Cobain wasn't the next beethoven.
As for the bands in the mainstream that are following in the footsteps of grunge, I think most of the "emo" bands and those types borrow from grunge in pretty much everything. Well, except for the fact that the lyricists of grunge usually had a reason to complain. Hurray for middle class white boys (like myself) whining about nothing.

'Pure emotion without much technical skill' pretty much describes every movement in music that was a counterreaction to overwrought overproduced mainstream stuff...

I mean, everything you said applies to the Ramones and the Sex Pistols. They're no Beethoven, but that doesn't mean here isn't substance behind the emotional release.

I also take objection to the critic-propgated myth that you need to be shooting up in some ghetto to have anything to say about the world. I've got a brain and a pair of eyes, just the same as I would have if I happened to grow up in a poor family.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bobthespirit,

I havent considered nirvana just being another emotional release...
maybe that would be another assignment topic... i still have no direction for my PIP (personal Interest Project)..

I have been going around in circles and its not good... its worth 30% of my total mark haha.. im so dead

if anyone can nudge me in the right direction or give me ideas on what to write about please !!! tell me

this is what i have at the moment...
Grunge Generations (PIP TOPIC)
INTRO
Grunge – influential music of late 80’s to early 90’s how this music has influenced varying generations… strong emphasis on nirvana
Choice – its influence on me… ruled by emotion (cared TOO much, shy) logically driven (question everything, voicing opinion)
Understanding – How teenagers seek a voice or seek understanding from other people and through music, how generations are influenced strongly by their governments
How music culture changed society, prove individuality does not really exist, commercially driven… businesses aim to make profit… image of nirvana… nothing to hero over night… influence of governments Whitlam, Howard… etc
LOG

BODY
Baby-boomers
Who are they, their perspective on grunge, and their reaction to grunge? Government/commercially driven/music/society
Interviews, secondary research, statistical analysis

Generation-X
Who are they, their perspective on grunge, and their reaction to grunge? Government/commercially driven/music/society
Interviews, secondary research, statistical analysis

Generation-Y
Who are they, their perspective on grunge, and their reaction to grunge? Government/commercially driven/music/society
Interviews, secondary research, statistical analysis

Link of all Three
Similarities between generations, differences, summary, recap, future and how that generation is or will be…
Baby-boomers social conformists, difficulty to deal with change
Generation-X good parents, responsibility
Generation-Y consumerism

Conclusion
What I have learnt

Resource list

This is just a structure im researching but its hard to gather information..
if anyone has any pointers please give me a shout



The posts have helped hahaha but it has just made my tpopic seem very broad VERY broad.. i think im in trouble..

Making a bunch of generalizations about entire generations can be questionable, especially since there are such huge regional differences. I mean, how do you define 'Baby Boomers'? Because it's the people born in the 50s who were hippies in the 60s. There's always been an ongoing social battle between progressive free-thinking individuals and conservative conformists who judge such people as freaks and immoral. In a way I guess you could say Nirvana were the icons for one generation of the progressives.

For the term paper:

If you're going to write about grunge in general, you're screwed. That's a book, not a paper. I just tried to write a paper based on a geometric analysis of Varese's Arcana. Boy, was that a bad idea. About three hours before it was due, I had to change the thesis to why nobody tries to analyze his music. Big fat C-.

Maybe you could discuss the influence of a single album (Nevermind) on an entire pop culture. Discuss what was going on in popular music at the time of Nevermind's release, and then examine its legacy through the artists it influenced and destroyed. You can give a song for song analysis or whatever. Either way, if you handle the topic in a scholarly manner, you'll kick it in the ass.

Don't try to write the grunge paper. It'll be too vague, and your resources will be overwhelming and confusing.

By the way, I'm 23 years old, and I think grunge is nothing more than a fashion trend. Nirvana was a great band among many. They live on as a popular phenomenon.

I was 22, about to turn 23, when Kurt Cobain died. Before his death, sales for Nirvana's 1993 release "In Utero" were somewhat stagnant. Nirvana was basically being eclipsed by other more "rock" oriented grunge bands like Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains. Kurt Cobain's death guaranteed almost continuous TV and radio airplay for Nirvana through out the late Spring, Summer, and Fall of 1994. By 1995, pseudo-pop-punk bands, like Greenday, were gaining in popularity, and I guess that would mark the end of the whole grunge thing.

The Grunge Phenomenon was really just a small part of a wider genre called "Alternative", which doesn't really exist anymore, or is at least no longer relevant. Nirvana was not the first "grunge" or "alternative" band to come out of the Pacific Northwest, nor were they the first "Alternative" band to get signed to a commercial label or have a commercially successful hit song. However, 1991's "Nevermind", was the largest selling alternative type album up to that point, surpassing Michael Jackson in terms of sheer volume.

Before Nirvana's big top 40 hit, "Smells Like Teen Spirit", placed Seattle on the map, I had never really heard the term "grunge" before. To give you an idea of the sad state of music and youth-counter culture before 1991, picture this:

It's 1988-1990; The underground Punk/Hardcore scene is basically dying of old age and lack of interest. Glam-Metal is huge and corny pop singers like Bruce Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Sting and Peter Gabriel dominate FM radio. So called, "politically aware" bands and artists like U2 and Sinéad O'Connor are preaching their brand of "liberal/We really care about the World" rhetoric daily on MTV. Aside from that, boy-bands like New Kids on the Block and girly singers like Debby Gibson cater to the 12 and under crowd. It seems as though the world has gone completely mad.

However, in contrast to slick mainstream pop and puffy hair-metal, exists an independent music underground. Some of the bands tour on their own dime and put out their own records. Many bands are signed to small independently owned labels like SST, Sub-Pop, Dischord, Enigma...etc. Other bands (mostly a few post-New Wave era bands and artists) are lucky enough to get signed to major labels and experience limited mainstream success (e.g., The Cure, Depeche Mode, the Cult, Joy Division, REM...etc..). Alternative exists as a category but encompasses so many different musical styles (techno, deathrock, punk, post punk, shoegazer, paisley underground..etc..) that it slowly loses it's meaning.

As far as politics in music goes, some bands are political, some are not; some bands are left-leaning activists, others have a more subtle philosophy. Over the years, we've been taught that the 80's punk scene was liberally biased, but that wasn't the true case. Politically, punk was all over the place. Some punk bands like the Clash advocated communism, and still other bands like Crass and Rudimentary Peni advocated extreme socialism disguised in the cloak of Anarchy; a few bands were racist Nazi's and other bands, like Reagan Youth, were more conservative and idolized President Ronald Reagan (although they were fairly tongue and cheek); some bands, like The Exploited, were overly serious and nihilistic, and yet others, like Adrenalin OD were just really funny. One thing that all punk bands shared in common was that, whether overly political or not, they all displayed a great sense of humor in at least some of their material. The great thing about punk in the 80's was that there was something for everyone. Not so with grunge, with its historically inaccurate and revisionist view of punk as an extension of the 60's hippie movement; a movement which members of the early British punk scene detested.

Anyway, my first impression of what was later called "grunge" was that it was just another punk sub-genre. I used to call it hippie punk for lack of a better term. Many Seattle bands were signed to independent punk labels in the mid to late 80's (Dinosaur Junior and Sound Garden each had singles put out by SST records), so their connection with the American underground punk scene was obvious to me. After 1991, the Grunge sound got popular, and the slate got wiped clean as bands like Guns'N'Roses, Motley Crue, and Poison began to quickly fade from the limelight. I remember, by 1993, almost all of the LA Heavy Metal clubs were now booking just "grunge" type bands. What was even more absurd was that most of those "new" grunge/alternative bands that were being booked were made up of metalheads from other defunct bands that couldn't get shows as metal acts, so they put on flannel shirts, washed the hairspray and moose out of their illustrious manes and began ripping off Pearl Jam. At first "Grunge" seemed like a breath of fresh air, but once the copycats started jumping on the bandwagon, I could see the disaster that was to come.

I don't listen to Nirvana or any other "Grunge" bands anymore. At the time, it seemed like a good idea, and it needed to happen in order to kill off the disease that was infesting popular culture. Looking back, I would say that the Seattle sound had a positive short term effect because it forced the music industry to focus on low-fi, garage type bands at a time when mainstream music was consistently boring and generic. However, "Grunge's" main flaw was that it took it's self way too seriously; so much so that by, 1993, it had become a parody of it's self. In the end, it began to look a lot like the pretentious heavy metal and generic top 40 pop it had strived so long to replace. The aftermath of "Grunge" was that, in an effort to emphasize low-fi garage bands, other music styles like "Industrial", which relied heavily on technology, began to be ignored by record labels in an effort to sign "the next Nirvana" or "Pearl Jam". A friend of mine said it best:

"You could say that 'Grunge' was like the chemotherapy we desperately needed. Unfortunately, sometimes chemotherapy, in addition to eliminating the dangerous tumor, can destroy allot of necessary and vital organs as well."

Did "Grunge" succeed in the long run? Well, just take a look at what rock music in the present has evolved into and observe what kind of an underground music scene exists as an alternative; then I'm sure you will have no problems answering that question

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kozlowski,

Hmm....I like the above post, but I have one observation about it.

You seem to define 'success' in terms of achievement of widespread popularity. And you describe the intention of the grunge movement like I would define the intention of the punk movement. But, I don't think grunge was a deliberate attack on the bland mainstream of the time. I think it's just another evolution of a sub-genre which was able to achieve popularity *because* people were so bored with the mainstream music. Then it started to become commercialized and watered down, so mainstream culture got bored of it and moved on.

I think people don't listen to it as much anymore because it blends into it's imitators, and because of oversaturation backlash. It was so prevalent for a few years that listeners still haven't gotten un-bored of it. It also doesn't fit into any particular trend at the moment. Hipsters moved onto indie, countercultual people moved onto metal, and mainstreamers moved onto the current pop and rock on the charts. It doesn't really fit into anybody's sonic pallet anymore, so they don't take time to listen to it, though I suspect people who do listen to it still get a lot of enjoyment from it.

Kozlowski:

quote:

Reagan Youth, were more conservative and idolized President Ronald Reagan (although they were fairly tongue and cheek)

Huh, are you sure about that? I always thought Reagan Youth's name was intended as parody and irony - not that I have to take its word for it, but Wikipedia confirms that they were certainly not pro-Reagan. Maybe you are thinking of the Ramones?

In any case, I am no music expert (and I can't speak as to the charge that grunge misrepresented punk - and for what it is worth, I never noticed *anything* overtly political in any grunge) but it seems to me that "grunge" was simply a convenient marketing term big labels slapped on the music coming out of Seattle that was influenced by punk, metal, and I guess to some extent folk. At the core of "grunge" (and perhaps all good things?) I think was genuineness. Of course it was commercially pumped and distorted completely out of shape and the corpse beaten until it was not recognizable. This is what (at least partially) the song "In Bloom" was talking about: "He's the one/
Who likes all our pretty songs/And he likes to sing along/And he likes to shoot his gun/But he don't know what it means". At one point whatever label or manager they were with at the time took intentionally hillbilly-looking photos of the band for an early demo just to emphasize to the unwashed masses how "real" and "down to earth" Nirvana was.

It seems to me like there was a quiet movement starting that just by chance got noticed by the mainstream music industry because kids connected so much with it (everybody feels disaffected and misrepresented, right?), and then it was prematurely railroaded into a joke, which I think is the saddest disgrace. I don't blame the artists for the "grunge" moniker, because I'm sure they were earnestly trying to make a buck and a career. The phenomenon just became to big, then collapsed. On the other hand, I might never have heard of it if it /wasn't/ for this very same mainstream music machine.

These days I sift through used CD stores and basically go back in time, getting reacquainted with a lot of music I missed or never had the money to buy.

To whom this may concern,
This is my account of the grunge era...specifically nirvana.
i was 13 when kurt died...i was heartbroken to say the least...
Being a kid in the small bullsh*t town of lancaster pa you wouldnt think is that bad...but when you are surrounded by giant hicks who bludgeon you every day for having long hair, liking to play guitar and hating football, well it gets kind of rough...also in my house growing up the family was very disfunctional...so at this point the only way for me to escape was to sit in my room and play the trumpet and listen to the beatles..one day i was surfing the radio for something other then hair metal * i was 10 at the time* i ran across someone broadcasting "love buzz" on the college radio stations. a year later i heard smells like teen spirit. it was easy for me to understand, high energy, and full of emotion...im not sure as to how this all connected with me until much later in life...i have always loved the bands music. And only recently after my girlfriend read one of the biographies did i realize that kurt reminds me alot of myself, and he endured alot of the same things i did. although as a young teenager i could not really grasp all of these aspects yet...but now i find my self struggling with similar questions that grunge lashed out at and criticized against...date rape, social/racial inequality etc etc etc...the point is it was drivin by the heart...it wasnt just the lyrics or the "grunge" sound it was the whole package...rage/depression/frustration/loneliness all rolled into one package...unfortunately with any musical scene there will be rip offs and band wagon jumpers who ruin the scene for every one, they steal the heart and tear out its soul....the point that i take from grunge is that we need to realize that the heart of something is sacred and that it is important to sacrilize that heart that way it makes it more difficult to imitate. you can imitate a style or a noise...you cant imitate true art or heart....thats all i have to say about it. the grunge era to most people it seems to me was an annoyance..to me...it was a whole lot deeper then anyone has even scratched in this forum yet....