There's a considerable buzz about something called 'Neo-Folk' or 'Anti-Folk' and I was curious how one would classify this sub-genre. I've read plenty of glowing reviews for Devandra Barhhart (metascore of 84 for 'Seven Swans') and Animal Collective, but I have yet to explore their catalogues. Can someone recommend a few seminal 'Neo-Folk' albums for novices like myself?

I can't really detail what "neo-folk" is, Lola, but I can point out a few things that might help. First off, Seven Swans is actually by Sufjan Stevens who, I'm relatively sure, is not described by many as "neo-folk." Sufjan's music is much more driven by melody and texture than I would attribute to most folk music. That being said, I don't know what separates folk from neo-folk...but Stevens is usually compared most closely with Elliot Smith, and I don't think he's usually thought of as a neo-folkie...

Devendra Banhart has been described (I think self-described) as "freak-folk"...and I'm not entirely sold on him. I want to like Rejoicing in the Hands more than I do...it's much more spare and driven by his voice and sparse instrumentation than, for example, Sufjan. I prefer the richer, more orchestrated Stevens records to Banhart, but I've not given Devendra a serious, extended listen. Banhart's record is weirder than my normally cup of tea, and that throws me. Then again, Stevens has a religiosity that I would normally find annoying, but it's not, so who knows whether I'll find Rejoicing more rewarding on future listens...

I can't say anything about Animal Collective, nor whether "neo-folk" is the same thing is "anti-folk." One artist that I have heard lumped into the anti-folk category is Ed Hammell, of Hammell on Trial fame, but I'm not sure I can say much more about that.

"neo-folk" is a buzz word used to describe the new folk/singer-songwriter types who are gaining more and more popularity in indie rock circles.

out of the lot, i mostly prefer joanna newsom's "milk-eyed mender".

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Originally posted by ihgsoi:
"neo-folk" is a buzz word used to describe the new folk/singer-songwriter types who are gaining more and more popularity in indie rock circles.

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Better put than my rambling response...I guess "indie folk" is as apt of a description an "neo folk." And, like all attempts at genre-fying and over categorizing, you run into cases where the lines blur...I see Sufjan Stevens as a product, not only of folk and pop, but also of the more heavily orchestrated "chamber pop" that is often called "orch pop." Is he more folk? More pop? The devil is in the details...

Well, pE, if you think Banhart is too weird, steer clear of Animal Collective. I think of this year's albums, "Seven Swans", "Rejoicing in the Hands", (and probably "Nino Rojo") would qualify as mostly folk. I agree that Stevens' disc stretches over into pop and even rock. Banhart sounds like a folkie with a rocker's heart and attitude. Animal Collective is pop, I would say, but saying that, then maybe they qualify as "anti-pop". They use their voices and instruments to craft music which is sorta catchy, but in a COMPLETELY non-traditional way. The other thing about AC's last album is that a little of it goes a long way. When I think I'm on track 10 and I check, I'm usually on track 5 or 6!

P.S. When I asked my wife last week what she thought of Banhart, she said he's unusual, but in a good way!

I should clarify, mark, since I claim to have picked up Rejoicing on your raves...it's certainly not something I can't tolerate. Things that are weird often take me more time to get into than things that are easy-to-swallow. I'm a power pop kind of guy, so anything off of the beaten path takes me more time. I think Banhart is further off the track than Sufjan, for example, but there's lots of weird stuff that I eventually gotten into (Spiritualized, Julian Cope, the Soft Boys) after spending some time with it.

Any suggestions on tracks from Rejoicing that might be worth focusing on?

Honestly, I've not paid enough attention to the record since I first listened to it. I'm going to get back into between baseball playoff games this weekend.

while we are talking about sufjan... is Seven Swans worth purchasing?

I enjoy "Michigan" very much.

according to my totally perfect and awesome ratings, michigan was my number 2 favorite album last year. seven swans is very likely to hit top 10, maybe top 5. I feel like its a great album, but in a different way. less dense and orchestrated with all those different elements, more just sufjan, an acoustic and a banjo. but stripped of all the extras, you can see the sufjan is clearly an incredible song writer, to whom much respect is due.

pE: I don't think I should resequence the album because I think it's incredible the way it is, and if it was ever "weird", I'm so far past that, I wouldn't remember. But if you want to try an experiment, sequence "Rejoicing in the Hands" 9,10,3,12,1,2,14,13,16. That leaves off almost half the songs, but you can add them in later, since they're all good.

Also, I would imagine if you liked "Michigan", you'd want to hear "Seven Swans", but since I haven't heard any of the 50-state opus, I wouldn't know. In other words, yes, listen to or buy it.

Sufjan Stevens can't really be put in the same class as Devendra Banhart or any of the new folksters, what with his high-fi and his immaculate instrumentation and his sounds-like-music-from-the-Sims and all

I mean it's nice and all but you know

I think you're referring to what some scenesters are labelling "freak-folk"- which is the most idiotic name since "shoegaze"- or "avant-folk." The idea behind this stuff is that it's stripped-down folk music, often eschewing an obvious melody in favour of more experimental sounds and textures. Banhart is kind-of-sort-of the head of this movement, though Animal Collective are also stars. Sufjan Stevens has absolutely nothing to do with it.

A lot of this stuff was codified in Banhart's Golden Apples of the Sun comp, which included two other attention-getting avant-folk artists, Joanna Newsom (whose Milk-Eyed Mender harp journeys I can't get into at all, but other people seem to like her), Six Organs of Admittance, and Espers.

The Jewelled Antler collective (Thuja, Skygreen Leopards, etc.) are avant-folk. So are Vetiver. So are Castanets, whose Cathedral you may have seen talked up on Pitchfork or Cokemachineglow.

Charalambides are sometimes lumped into this movement as well.

Many people are tracing the genre back to Vashti Bunyan, and specifically her album Just Another Diamond Day, which recently received reissue.

I'd recomend Joanna Newsom's The Milk Eyed Mender. It might take you awhile to get past her voice—she sounds kind of like Lisa Simpson at times—but after listening to the first few songs, you wont even notice her grating voice because you’re too mesmerized by her skillful songwriting. Seriously, this album is great.

I’d also recommend Sufjan Stevens’ Seven Swans. While it wasn’t my favorite album of 2004, it’s definitely worth the purchase.

How about Iron & Wine - do they fit this category? I felt that Endless Numbered Days had a very similar feel to Seven Swans, but was slightly more diverse. I prefered it. What's his new EP like?

I think Iron & Wine fit the bill. He's NOT the same as the "freak-folk" folks, but Sam's folksy side is apparent in the instrumentation and lyricism.

Woman King is less spare and more fleshed out than previous I&W records, but has 5 really good songs (and one so-so song) on it. I look forward to the Iron&Wine/Calexico collaboration that's coming out in 2005...

I'm always in the mood to talk about Sufjan Stevens. "Seven Swans" was amazing, definitely one of my new favorite records. "Michigan is a fun little treat as well. And his new album, entitled something to the effect of "Come On, Feel the Illinoise," comes out on July 5. I've heard a few tracks from that one and it sounds awesome. I'll keep you posted.

Hey, SSI, I pre-ordered Sufjan's new album, Illinois, off of the Asthmatic Kitty website and got it about 5 days ago, even though it wasn't supposed to ship until today. Here's a link. It's only $12 including shipping and handling, and the CD is great. Quite possibly his best yet.


I don't think Sufjan belongs in the Neo-Folk thread though.

More than anything I think that 'neo-folk' is just a label to side-step 'altcountry' as a genre - altcountry has developed such a stigma (much of it deserved by boring acts latching on to it - 'singer/songwriter' has taken a similar beating) that it's underisable to be labelled as such. I think, at least in a broad sense, that neo-folk and indie-folk (etc) are ultimately a maturationj(beyond beer songs, at least) of the modern songwriter ideal that alt-country used to stand for. Sufjan, Devendra and I&W and a plethora of other acts all fall into this category as far as I'm concerned.

"Neofolk," like "alt-country" and all the rest of those labels, is a marketing tool.

I would take Neo-Folk to mean artists like Uncle Tupelo, Son Volt, the Microphones, Apples in Stereo (maybe), Sufjan Stevens (maybe), Alejandro Escovedo, Cat Power (maybe), Howe Gelb, Iron & Wine, the Mountain Goats, and early Wilco.

I would say that Neo-folk is any artist that gets name-dropped as a Nick Drake sound-a-like is Neo-folk. I first heard that term when someone described Mojave 3 but I would like to think that artists like Jose Gonzalez, Iron and Wine, Banhart etc. are more Neo-folk than Mojave 3.