Originally posted by JGlass: EDIT: And Yay! what post-punk qualities do Xiu Xiu have? I seem to be missing them..
My roommate could give you a better oral presentation on this than I could give you a written one, but:
Some surface influences I hear in Xiu Xiu are: Joy Division and early, lo-fi New Order, miscellanious obscure Factory Records bands, The Cure, there's some Morrisey/Smiths songwriting qualities, too.
Also, All Music Guide backs me up, calling Xiu Xiu "post-punk throwbacks."
Originally posted by JGlass: EDIT: And Yay! what post-punk qualities do Xiu Xiu have? I seem to be missing them..
My roommate could give you a better oral presentation on this than I could give you a written one, but:
Some surface influences I hear in Xiu Xiu are: Joy Division and early, lo-fi New Order, miscellanious obscure Factory Records bands, The Cure, there's some Morrisey/Smiths songwriting qualities, too.
Also, All Music Guide backs me up, calling Xiu Xiu "post-punk throwbacks."
I've only heard Fabulous Muscles (which I cannot stand and haven't listened to in.. at least a year, maybe more) but they just seemed like your typical indie band with some retched lyrics. Weird for the sake of freaking people out (like a lot of performance artists... which a lot of post-punk musicians were, so maybe there's something I'm just not getting). It just does not seem like something I would ever call post-punk, but I also love post-punk and have a serious aversion to Xiu Xiu.
quote:
Originally posted by goathouse: Maybe people should stop aligning against Indie. You'd think people would be rooting more for such a capable underdog.
Haven't you heard what the term Alternative has become? That's the same process the term "Indie" is going through.
Haven't you heard what the term Alternative has become? That's the same process the term "Indie" is going through.
Indie is what Alternative should've been. Alternative as really never an alternative, as it was on the radio from day one. Only a handful of indie bands make it to radio (at least, the stations we have in KC).
Posts: 875 | Location: Ain'T it stiLl obvious? | Registered: 22 August 2006
Originally posted by ezkcdude: Alternative as really never an alternative, as it was on the radio from day one.
Not really. I'm sure I've posted this a couple times before, but prior to the Seattle Grunge explosion of the early 1990s, the Alternative section of any record store was where you found the underground stuff that wasn't getting airplay. For people of my age, it was stuff like Husker Du, Pixies, Dinosaur Jr., My Bloody Valentine, etc. Basically, stuff we'd call "Indie" now.
However, after Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden blew up, everybody and their brother was suddenly an "Alternative" music fan. Yeah, the same dudes that were going to Slaughter and L.A. Guns concerts a few years prior were now "Alternative" music fans.
Thus, the term took on it's current connotation of being essentially modern rock or non-Dad Rock rock, and corporate rock hacks like Creed and Nickelback were suddenly "Alternative".
I should also note that at least Nirvana and Soundgarden weren't on the radio from day one. Both had releases on indie labels prior to making it big (Sub Pop and SST respectively) and were underground sensations before becoming radio hitmakers.
----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands.
Posts: 5180 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
Originally posted by ezkcdude: Alternative as really never an alternative, as it was on the radio from day one.
Not really. I'm sure I've posted this a couple times before, but prior to the Seattle Grunge explosion of the early 1990s, the Alternative section of any record store was where you found the underground stuff that wasn't getting airplay. For people of my age, it was stuff like Husker Du, Pixies, Dinosaur Jr., My Bloody Valentine, etc. Basically, stuff we'd call "Indie" now.
However, after Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden blew up, everybody and their brother was suddenly an "Alternative" music fan. Yeah, the same dudes that were going to Slaughter and L.A. Guns concerts a few years prior were now "Alternative" music fans.
Thus, the term took on it's current connotation of being essentially modern rock or non-Dad Rock rock, and corporate rock hacks like Creed and Nickelback were suddenly "Alternative".
I should also note that at least Nirvana and Soundgarden weren't on the radio from day one. Both had releases on indie labels prior to making it big (Sub Pop and SST respectively) and were underground sensations before becoming radio hitmakers.
Yessir.
So, like I said: would you like to see the bastardization of a term so sweet? Would you like "indie" to become the record label term for a certain sound like "emo" and "alternative" have become? I don't.. I don't like the term "indie" in the first place, but it does help to categorize those bands that people generally step into out of the main-stream... but not anymore (you'll get "emo" and "indie" from a lot of people if you ask them about the genre of P!ATD, MCR, FOB, etc)
Originally posted by ezkcdude: Alternative as really never an alternative, as it was on the radio from day one.
Not really. I'm sure I've posted this a couple times before, but prior to the Seattle Grunge explosion of the early 1990s, the Alternative section of any record store was where you found the underground stuff that wasn't getting airplay. For people of my age, it was stuff like Husker Du, Pixies, Dinosaur Jr., My Bloody Valentine, etc. Basically, stuff we'd call "Indie" now.
However, after Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden blew up, everybody and their brother was suddenly an "Alternative" music fan. Yeah, the same dudes that were going to Slaughter and L.A. Guns concerts a few years prior were now "Alternative" music fans.
Thus, the term took on it's current connotation of being essentially modern rock or non-Dad Rock rock, and corporate rock hacks like Creed and Nickelback were suddenly "Alternative".
I should also note that at least Nirvana and Soundgarden weren't on the radio from day one. Both had releases on indie labels prior to making it big (Sub Pop and SST respectively) and were underground sensations before becoming radio hitmakers.
Thank You!
That was illuminating. I was born in '84 and lived in Alaska until 1994. I totally missed it.
Originally posted by ezkcdude: I never really thought Grunge=Alternative (in terms of labels). I thought Alternative=Bush (and similar mid-90's craptastic rock).
The alternative tag started getting used a lot in the early 90s when bands like Cracker, Smashing Pumpkins and Radiohead started getting popular on the heels of the Grunge explosion. That music clearly wasn't "Grunge", but it was quite different from the hair metal bands that dominated rock radio up until that point. All that stuff became known to the masses as Alternative. Yes, lesser bands like Bush and Candlebox were there too, but all that stuff was popular within about a three year span.
----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands.
Posts: 5180 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
Does everyone else's radiostations that play the typical current radio rock stuff refer to the station as an "alternative" station? Because that's how it is here. And if you ask someone what they listen to here and they listen to any sort of current rock music, they will reply "alternative". It has become the exact opposite of its original meaning.
I've always been a fan of words changing their meaning to fit the times, but there are certain situations when it is not welcomed by me.
Originally posted by Maximum Jack: I haven't been around here very long, but it seems that Radiohead, the Flaming Lips, MMJ and Wilco get bandied around a lot as the end-all-be-all of modern music by the Metacritic community. None of those bands are "indie." They may have started independent (actually Jeff Tweedy has been on a Major since Anodyne, but who didn't--the Monkees (BTW, I love the Monkees)?
I think there is something to what EZ said in the post above, people who are passionate about obscure bands do need some sort of validation. We're certainly not getting it from the corporate media-- when was the last time you gave a crap about the Grammys? Not only that, but because we like bands that fly below the radar, we know that there are dozens if not hundreds of other great bands out there, so we use forums such as these to seek out those other gems.
np: Any Trouble, "Second Choice"
Indie hasn't been necessarily meant an independent method of release for quite some time now. It now vaguely refers to a form of guitar pop that usually has an emphasis on (generally) more complicated arrangements, orchestrations, and lyrical themes.
Words evolve in modern culture. For lack of a better example, take the word "gay." My grandparents, as children, would have taken it to mean happy-go-lucky. To my parents, it meant homosexual. To my generation (unfortunately), it more or less means stupid and is roughly equivalent to "retarded" (another word that has evolved in an undesirable way).
Sorry if I offended anyone, but is my basic point clear?
Originally posted by ezkcdude: Alternative as really never an alternative, as it was on the radio from day one.
Not really. I'm sure I've posted this a couple times before, but prior to the Seattle Grunge explosion of the early 1990s, the Alternative section of any record store was where you found the underground stuff that wasn't getting airplay. For people of my age, it was stuff like Husker Du, Pixies, Dinosaur Jr., My Bloody Valentine, etc. Basically, stuff we'd call "Indie" now.
However, after Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden blew up, everybody and their brother was suddenly an "Alternative" music fan. Yeah, the same dudes that were going to Slaughter and L.A. Guns concerts a few years prior were now "Alternative" music fans.
Thus, the term took on it's current connotation of being essentially modern rock or non-Dad Rock rock, and corporate rock hacks like Creed and Nickelback were suddenly "Alternative".
I should also note that at least Nirvana and Soundgarden weren't on the radio from day one. Both had releases on indie labels prior to making it big (Sub Pop and SST respectively) and were underground sensations before becoming radio hitmakers.
Thank You!
That was illuminating. I was born in '84 and lived in Alaska until 1994. I totally missed it.
It now vaguely refers to a form of guitar pop that usually has an emphasis on (generally) more complicated arrangements, orchestrations, and lyrical themes.
I know what you're saying, but I think that the word is beginning to be used by a lot of bands that are just what I would consider "rock." Look around on Craigslist or myspace and you will find all kinds of bands that call themselves "indie" but do not fit into the general sound that most people associate with the indie sound, however vague that may be. Even though they are "indie," because they don't have a label. For me, this dilutes the term "indie" and makes it as useless as the word "alternative."
I have a theory that guys who formed "hair bands" in the 80's had a certain type of personality. So guys who were born after 1980, or so, grew up in a time when being in a "hair band" wasn't so cool (and that's something that matters to them). So guys who had the "hair band personality" in the 90's formed "alternative" bands instead, because that was the hip genre at the time. It's only a matter of time before that type of guy decides that "indie" is the cool thing to do now and starts forming bands that they call "indie." I think it's already happening. Guys that have the "hair band gene" are naturally drawn to the allure of the rock music lifestyle, so they ARE out there. It's just harder to recognize them because they use less hairspray now.
I really think all this talk of protecting a name is somewhat fruitless. If the meaning changes, gets bastardized, whatever, so what? The creative powers that be will come up with a new term that we can all get our meta on with and everyone will be friends again for a couple of peaceful years. I don't think it matters much.
