quote:

mark f "Forum Moderator"
Super Bad-Ass Jedi
Posted 16 July 2007 10:46 PM Hide Post
I have no problem with an Adult Pixar film. That's why I love The Incredibles and Ratatouille!

I just don't see any reason to castrate a wonderful script to make it more "adult". I still have a tough time understanding what you, Tabuno, and kendo think are somehow "immature" and "unoriginal" about the two movies above. I think it has to do with preconceptions that certain films are somehow superior to others. Hell, I agree with you, but I don't agree with which films!!

Please don't identify me as not liking The Incredibles. In fact, I have placed this movie on my favorite movie list and among my most favorite animated film.

I thought you listed some 1973 Japanese anime The Incredibles? At least it seemed like it. My The Incredibles is by Brad Bird, the writer/diretor of Ratatouille, and it came out in 2004.

quote:

mark f "Forum Moderator"
Super Bad-Ass Jedi
Posted 16 July 2007 11:35 PM

I thought you listed some 1973 Japanese anime The Incredibles? At least it seemed like it. My The Incredibles is by Brad Bird, the writer/diretor of Ratatouille, and it came out in 2004.

I posted on July 14, that The Incredibles was my third most favorite animated film.

My most favorite animated movies was Spirited Away (2001) followed by La Planete sauvagealso known as "Fantastic Planet" (1973).

Oops, in my copying and trying to be fancy, I unintentionally copied into the wrong place the names of several movies. The 1973 movies was "Fantastic Planet" and "The Incredibles" was the 2004 movie. Darn cut and paste.

I'm happy to see that we share a love for a wonderful film, my friend!

But what's with me and action-adventure movies? I have a prejudice against them in terms of serious substantive, mindful movies. Somehow I don't equate the performances with great acting in these movies.

Maybe you should watch your faves again and just see what happens. You love Alien, and although it's not really an "action" film, it's certainly an adventure because it shows things which no other film has. It's a psychological horror/sci-fi film, but it most certainly qualifies as an adventure.

I just try to watch films and not even think about what genres they are. I just try to "feel" the films. I'm not saying that you don't do the same, but as of now, you do "feel them differently". (which is OK; no biggie!)

I believe that Harrison Ford's portrayal Of Indiana Jones is excellent in all three movies, but unlike myself, my wife believes his greatest Indy performance is the one opposite his pop, Sean Connery!. Maybe The Last Crusade will get you over the hump as far as adventure performances because I thought Connery was 100% better in Last Crusade than he was in his Oscar-winning Untouchables role.

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
That's why I love The Incredibles and Ratatouille!

I don't hate the stories in those two movies, Mark, but my original comment was that I'd be interested to see Pixar do something that was a bit different. Try making a film that's not a traditional comedy, or doesn't have clearly defined heroes and villains, or maybe has an older target audience. All their films (at least the ones I've seen) feel very similar to me. Like Remy in Ratatouille, I'd like to see them deviate from their recipe a little bit.

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
I have no problem with an Adult Pixar film. That's why I love The Incredibles and Ratatouille!

I just don't see any reason to castrate a wonderful script to make it more "adult". I still have a tough time understanding what you, Tabuno, and kendo think are somehow "immature" and "unoriginal" about the two movies above. I think it has to do with preconceptions that certain films are somehow superior to others. Hell, I agree with you, but I don't agree with which films!!

I'm feeling you Mark, and I almost want to cry. I don't think Ratatouille is rote, been-there-done-that, recycled or has-been-done-better-before.

I think it was made with adults in mind. As in "let's make this movie for adults and let the kids enjoy the animation and slapstick elements".

I feel like the people criticizing this movie are looking for something that's more negative. As in "animated movies are too positive" kind of attitude. I think it's way off base. I believe Ratatouille really deals with difficult issues, things I identify very strongly/emotionally with. The whole idea of what we should and shouldn't be doing in life. Wanting to please your family while struggling with breaking the mold they have created for you.

Most movies with a theme like this cast the parent as the "bad guy", like the evil stepmother. Remy's Dad isn't a villain with fucked up, inconsistent logic. He's real, his concerns are real. Anyone with any sort of artistic ability who has ultra-conservative parents knows what this is like.

I don't hate my parents for making me feel like I SHOULD be doing "this-and-that" because I know they are attempting to "do what's best for me"...at some point, I have to do what I feel is right for me (and hopefully they accept that). It's tough, no one wants to alienate their family and no one wants to sacrifice their own life (and potential for happiness) for the sake of keeping others happy. It is a real-life struggle for a lot of people.

To me, I can identify with this movie (doesn't hurt that I LOVE to cook, either). I cannot identify with Taxi Driver. I really like Taxi Driver, and think it's a pretty special movie...but it certainly opens no gateways into my life, shows me nothing I can relate to. If I had to decide which is a better representation of my life, which shows me the highest form of art...it's Ratatouille, hands down.

Isn't the highest form of art something that reflects your life? Doesn't the greatest experience involve feeling a sense of life? Of Joy? This movie may be animated and center around rats, but it is more "human" than any movie I have seen in a long, long time.

/rant

quote:

Originally posted by Il Mago:
I feel like the people criticizing this movie are looking for something that's more negative. As in "animated movies are too positive" kind of attitude. I think it's way off base. I

It's not that necessarily, Il Mago. I just find myself wanting to see this form of filmmaking tackle something beside the uplifting, lighthearted formulaic comedy. Even though I liked Ratatouille, it didn't tell me a story I didn't feel like I already knew.

I don't hate "positive" movies. One of my favorite films of the decade is Jean-Pierre Jeunet's Amelie, which was both visually stunning and as close to pure joy as I've seen on film.

However, Jeunet followed up this classic with the much darker (although also happily-ended) A Very Long Engagement. Both films share Jeunet's creative visual style, and it's star, Audrey Tautou, but storywise, they're very different animals.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:

quote:

Originally posted by Il Mago:
I feel like the people criticizing this movie are looking for something that's more negative. As in "animated movies are too positive" kind of attitude. I think it's way off base. I

It's not that necessarily, Il Mago. I just find myself wanting to see this form of filmmaking tackle something beside the uplifting, lighthearted formulaic comedy. Even though I liked Ratatouille, it didn't tell me a story I didn't feel like I already knew.

I don't hate "positive" movies. One of my favorite films of the decade is Jean-Pierre Jeunet's Amelie, which was both visually stunning and as close to pure joy as I've seen on film.

However, Jeunet followed up this classic with the much darker (although also happily-ended) A Very Long Engagement. Both films share Jeunet's creative visual style, and it's star, Audrey Tautou, but storywise, they're very different animals.

I hear you on Amelie, EG! Nice example. I have lost my copy a few years ago and haven't bought it again, but you're right, teriffic stuff.

I guess I haven't seen something like Ratatouille before...at least the way you say you have. I don't think it's formulaic or predictable...unless you predicted a "happy ending". In fact, the way they have two seperate worlds (or at least POVs) with the rats and humans, is very original. They are constantly jumping between human perspective and rat perspective in a very natural, unforced way. Even the audio changes from cramped, claustrophobic (rat POV) to open, breezy (human POV) to great effect. Most movies will keep one perspective and stick with it (Toy Story, for example).

Another thing is that this movie is very dialogue driven, and a lot of animated fare is not (at least in the sense of pushing the story forward). But it's not all-dialogue all-the-time, either. There is one section of the movie where, for about 15 minutes, the protagonist says nothing at all. Show me one mainstream, formulaic, kids movie that attempts that and pulls it off (especially one with the protagonist as the narrator).

quote:

Posted by Il Mago
Isn't the highest form of art something that reflects your life?

I appreciate where you're coming from, IM, however I don't think this statement holds up, except in the most subjective sense.

For example, Aguirre, Wrath of God is probably my all time favourite film, and it in no way reflects my life.
I haven't gone hunting for treasures to the point where I became a megalomaniac, tossed monkeys about or felt the pressures of being a soldier in a king's army.

But, by Odin's beard, I fucking love that movie as if it were my own child.

So, while I understand that people often will like something that they can relate to, this has never been my experience. In fact, I am probably the opposite. Many of my favourite movies relate experiences which have nothing to do with my life.

The highest form of art , I believe, can be totally independent of personal relationship to the story.

Sure, but you love Ratatouille just the same. Can you remind us why please?

Its true. I couldn't care less about food, cooking, in fact the whole world of cuisine bores me to death....BUT..

Ratatouille has a great script, which foreshadows well, creates solid, individual characters, knows how to build structure and works an old formula with style.
The film language is clever and always well chosen to draw the right feelings from a scene.
The voices work well for the most part, full of great timbre and modulation.
So, even in the scenes where Remy is cooking, I am drawn along by the energetic direction, clever dialogue and gorgeous animation.

Is that enuff mr. mark? can I go now?

I actually like cooking and food. But, I think my favorite food/cooking movie is still Campbell Scott & Stanley Tucci's Big Night. Now that's a charming film.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
I actually like cooking and food. But, I think my favorite food/cooking movie is still Campbell Scott & Stanley Tucci's Big Night. Now that's a charming film.

I'm gonna have to check that one out. I think Stanley Tucci's really funny/interesting, but I really haven't seen him in too much. Campbell Scott is great too.

Food movies probably deserves its own thread. My favorite was Babette's Feast. Runner up: Eat, Drink, Man, Woman, by Ang Lee.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Mago:
I'm gonna have to check that one out. I think Stanley Tucci's really funny/interesting, but I really haven't seen him in too much. Campbell Scott is great too.

They directed the film together. Tucci has a starring role, but Campbell Scott only plays a bit part as a very bizarre used car salesman.

It's about two brothers (Tucci and Tony Shaloub) who are running a restaurant which is in danger of of going out of business. They plan a huge dinner party with Louis Prima as one last ditch effort to save their restaurant.

Minnie Driver, Isabella Rosselini, Ian Holm, and Liev Schrieber also round out the wonderful cast.

If you like Ratatouille, you may like it since there are also some themes of artistic integrity and compromise in the story. The food is amazing looking, especially if you're into Italian food. Don't watch it on an empty stomach.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
If you like Ratatouille, you may like it since there are also some themes of artistic integrity and compromise in the story. The food is amazing looking, especially if you're into Italian food. Don't watch it on an empty stomach.

Nah, didn't like Ratatouille.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Mago:
Nah, didn't like Ratatouille.

I'm coming to Canada to kick your ass now.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:

quote:

Originally posted by Il Mago:
Nah, didn't like Ratatouille.

I'm coming to Canada to kick your ass now.

I live at 123 Fake St.