I have to crash now, but since there is no topic for this wonderful film, I wanted to start one first. I'll try to write some kinda review later, but I highly recommend Brad Bird's latest animated wonder. It's a Bird film, so of course it's entertaining, funny, touching and spectacular. I give it an A-, and I think it's as good or better than anything which came out in the last 18 months.

We saw it tonight mark. What a charming, intellient movie. No "least common denominator" humor, and the more of a "foodie" you are, the more charming the film becomes. You know what a '61 Chateau LaTour would cost ya?

Excellent film! Absolutely gorgeous looking animation. I think my favorite visual part was the display of fireworks with the food combination taste test. Very nice movie about being the outsider and sticking to what you love and believe. "Anyone can cook", anyone can love Ratatouille.

True dat!!

Do you all think this one is good enough to win over a CG-animated-comedy skeptic? I can admit that Toy Story, Finding Nemo, Incredibles, Bug's Life etc. were well done, but none of them stuck with me whatsoever. Their humor is too cutesy, too "kids hear the silliness, adults hear the mildly edgy subtext". I've really avoided any similar films the last few years (Cars, Over the Hedge, etc.)

But this one looks different..I may have to give it a shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Commontone:
Do you all think this one is good enough to win over a CG-animated-comedy skeptic? I can admit that Toy Story, Finding Nemo, Incredibles, Bug's Life etc. were well done, but none of them stuck with me whatsoever. Their humor is too cutesy, too "kids hear the silliness, adults hear the mildly edgy subtext". I've really avoided any similar films the last few years (Cars, Over the Hedge, etc.)

But this one looks different..I may have to give it a shot.

I feel the same way about CGI movies, Commontone. I've seen several over the years, and while I usually find them moderately enjoyable, they're almost always totally forgettable for me. They always come off as very formulaic, presumably because they're aimed primarily at kids. Ratatouille has been getting great reviews, and kudos from people whose opinions I trust, but yet I still can't get myself excited about it. Not in the way I was excited to see Pan's Labyrinth, The Departed, or Knocked Up.

So, is Ratatouille really a great story that departs from the standard Disney formula? Or is it just another passable story with good animation that I'll forget about by the end of the year?

It's a good question. I, of course, went to take my nine year old daughter. My fourteen year old son went along, because of the great reviews. We all really enjoyed it, and we all laughed quite a bit. That said, I'm quite sure that if I weren't taking my little girl, I would never have gone on my own. In my mind, it's clearly better than the average Pixar fare, and head and shoulders above the average, kid aimed CG crap (Over the Hedge, Madagascar). The graphics are awe inspiring. The story is charming and lovely, with genuine humor. Still, I'm not sure if I believe that it stands up as a strong film independently of its "cartoon" roots. In other words, if you are of an age that you are choosing between Rataouille, or Pan's Labyrinth, I think you should choose the latter. Others, undoubtedly, will disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by kendocubano:
I'm not sure if I believe that it stands up as a strong film independently of its "cartoon" roots.

That's sort of what I was getting at. I never get the impression that most of these CG movies would be that enjoyable if they weren't cartoons.

One review I read said it really isn't a kids movie. According to the critc, at first glance it has all the laughs but the themes are so advanced for the children to really comprehend. The Wall Street Journal also published an article about how a rat movie could not be successful. Rat toys at McDonalds?
Bird is masterful at evoking emotions in not just the kids but in the adults. I absolutely loved it and would highly recommend it. Best Bird (i'm a big fan of him) film, and one of the best Pixar films.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:

quote:

Originally posted by kendocubano:
I'm not sure if I believe that it stands up as a strong film independently of its "cartoon" roots.

That's sort of what I was getting at. I never get the impression that most of these CG movies would be that enjoyable if they weren't cartoons.

I think if you take away all the animation and simply tell the story, it is a story worth telling. It is not rote and, as noted, doesn't mug for the lowest common denominator. Beyond the technical acheivement that it is, it is a great story. It is certainly not full of the gag factor that Nemo and Monsters Inc. were. It is touching because it is inspiring. No heart strings being tugged at manipulatively.

EricG, how about this:

Go see Ratatouille. If you think it is "Meh", I will gladly refund your money to you and a guest. All I ask is that you go to a late show to avoid the kid-crowd. I am so certain that you will enjoy it beyond any other CGI movie.

Pan's Labyrinth, The Departed and Knocked Up were three of my absolute favourites from the last 12 months. I like Ratatouille more. There is a speech near the end that is pretty much the greatest monologue I have heard in a movie before. Absolute classic.

Wow. Don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed it. And I totally appreciated the absence of scatological humor that seems de rigeur in today's comedies, child oriented or otherwise.

The romantic comedy aspect of it is fine, if you like that genre (I don't). But in the end, it is a comic, and as such, uses some conventions that require a huge suspension of disbelief.

The characters are well developed, and the "messages" both positive and touching. But the mere fact that the movie feels compelled to have "messages," in my mind, diminishes it. To me, this is the greatest failing of nearly all artistic endeavor that is, at least ostensibly, aimed at children and childhood. "Try your best," "Don't judge a book by it's cover," "Follow your dreams." In the end, they are inevitably simple and simplistic.

The truly great works of art, in my opinion, have much more complex things to say. What is the "message" in "Pan's Labyrinth," or "The Godfather" or "Mean Streets," or any other of the great cinematic works?

Mind you, the fact that I'm even talking about this in the context of a Pixar film speaks volumes about the quality of the film. It is a film worth asking serious questions about, unlike a piece of "product," like "Madagascar."

The greatest works of children's art and literature also, I believe, defy simple categorization and sloganeering. What is "Alice in Wonderland" about? Or the works of Roald Dahl?

Maybe my expectations are too high. I felt that it was time and money well spent. Go, you'll probably enjoy it. I certainly did. But, if your question is whether it stands up to the greats of American and international cinema (Scorsese, de Toro, Coppola), I respectfully believe it does not.

Haha, well put Kendo. I'm not sure that the message is so simplistic here though, and it certainly doesn't force it.

We have an artist refusing to compromise. Yes, it is saying "do what you love", but seriously, beyond the suspension of disbelief, this story should be told. My idea is that you should get a sense of life from great art, and this movie does that for me. I found it to be completely joyous and celebratory and it can be applied to anyone's life.

More than anything, this movie left me feeling great afterwards. Pan's, which I loved, left me feeling pretty fucking sad for our little heroine. A lot of feel good movies make me want to gag, but this just hit me in all the right spots.

I agree with everything you've said, mago.

Interesting discussion so far, so I'll mention a few random thoughts.

1. There are no children in the movie. Maybe I'm forgetting something, but every character is an adult. I guess I can't vouch for all the rats though.

2. I find the entire concept or "story" of the movie completely original. The thing which current cinema needs is originality, and this film has it in spades.

3. How could you do this film in any way other than animation? The fact that it's animated isn't that important to me. You see; when I watch a Brad Bird feature film, I don't really even think I'm watching animation. It's too real. Besides, Bird has such a witty and sophisticated way of combining his Rube Goldberg visual ideas with an incredibly strong sense of character and story in his screenplays. He knows when to ratchet up the action and comedy, but he also knows when to get quiet and personal and let his characters interact very believably. This movie certainly doesn't "try too hard" because Brad Bird's secret weapon is that he's a damn fine writer.

4. Spoiler: The "monologue" (review) which Il Mago mentions is quite spectacular and unexpected. Peter O'Toole's voice is incredible, and I couldn't help but lose it at that point with the tears. But what makes it even more wonderful are the scenes before and after it. This film really builds to a fully-satisfying conclusion on every conceiveable level (and even on a few inconceiveable ones).

More later.

Ok guys, great discussion so far. Now I haven't seen this movie but I want to. My birthday is coming up and my girlfriend is letting me choose whatever I want to do for the day and I think I want to see this movie.

Now, many of you know how much I love it, so answer me this: is this new film from Brad Bird as good or better than Finding Nemo?

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:
Ok guys, great discussion so far. Now I haven't seen this movie but I want to. My birthday is coming up and my girlfriend is letting me choose whatever I want to do for the day and I think I want to see this movie.

Now, many of you know how much I love it, so answer me this: is this new film from Brad Bird as good or better than Finding Nemo?

It is much better than Finding Nemo. My Pixar list would look like this though:

Ratatouille
The Incredibles
Toy Story
Toy Story 2
Finding Nemo
Cars
A Bugs Life
Monsters Inc.

For the record, I do remember enjoying The Incredibles, but still it didn't seem memorable to me. It's only been a few years (2004) since it's release, and I can barely remember anything about it. Like every other Pixar film I've seen, it just feels like disposable entertainment. Comparatively, other movies from that same year, like Sideways, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, and Kill Bill Vol 2 already feel like classics.

I hate to sound like a heartless curmudgeon here. FKA would probably have a coronary if I told him I've never seen Finding Nemo.

This is quantitatively better than Finding Nemo.

Since we all love lists, and inspired by Mags, I'll offer up my list:

Ratatouille
Toy Story
The Incredibles
Toy Story 2
Finding Nemo
A Bugs Life
Monsters Inc.
Cars

Thanks a bunch guys, that's good enough for me. Interesting lists by the way, I might be the only one that would have Finding Nemo on the top. That may change after I see Ratatouille though.

Eric, I agree with you on the three films you listed as being classics but you are cold-blooded if you haven't seen Finding Nemo. I am deeply saddened.

Without giving any reasons (ha!), I believe that The Incredibles is twice as good as Sideways, Eternal Sunshine and Kill Bill Vol. 2 put together.