quote:

Originally posted by Borachon:

I had Cat Power and Emily Haines in my top 20. I also had Neko Case, Camera Obscura, Howling Bells, Dresden Dolls, Jenny Watson, and Jolie Holland, and Joan As Policewoman in my top 50. Apart from Newsome, and Amy Millan, both of which I own, I can't think of too many other notable releases from female artists, or with female leads. I'm comfortable with my estrogen levels, although I've often thought it'd be nice to have breasts.

Hip hop had a decent year, but a lot of people don't listen to it all, so it doesn't surprise me that it's not represented. I had Jedi Mind Tricks number 6 on my list, if that helps.

Orphans wasn't in my top 50, because I hadn't really listened to it, but I am at the moment. Sounds very much an album of the year to me. Despite what you think of my mother.

Regarding the lack of women represented, I was refering to the composite list, not each individual's, which of course varied from "I like women very much and enjoy music they create" to "Eww, girls have cooties." If any of you fall towards the former end of the scale, then probably my critique isn't aimed at you.

And yes, lots of people don't listen to hip hop. But they should. That's the point.

As far as I'm concerned, Orphans does not even qualify as an album, since it's three discs of material that was not conceived of, executed, or even presented as a cohesive unit. I'd call that a box set. Even if it is an album, I'd exclude it from a 2006 list, since it contains a lot of older material. But, hey, that's a semantics debate, it doesn't matter, and nobody cares what I call it. I don't really care if people like it or not, I was just trying to be cute. Although, I would like to say Tom Waits is so far past his prime, he lapped it in 1999. That comment is very, very serious, and in no way a joke.

Only six on my top 20 made the list, and the highest ended up being number 11. I'd have to say that of the top 20 above, I definitely enjoyed more of the albums in the bottom 10. Thanks again, RL.

quote:

Originally posted by philosopherEric:
There is something great to be said for the musical awakenings of the young 'uns. But I think there is a sense of responsibility than any serious music fan to learn about the stuff that came before. If 1991 is Year Zero for your musical world, you're missing out. Alot.

oh god, wouldn't the self-conscious pursuit of iconic artifacts in music simply to satisfy some "serious music listener cred" be even worse than somebody who doesnt pretend to be interested in anything other than what's happening now?
statements like that make me not want to BE a serious music listener at all. i'd just bore all my fucking friends by being deluded enough that they should be interested in the history of musique concrete.
hell no. i wouldn't be so churlish to bash on the beach boys in preference of some band from today, but i wouldnt be able to deny that i'd be senselessly bored by it.
i'm missing out on a lot, but i can leave it for the lot that's to come, and i'd rather look forward, honestly.

quote:

Originally posted by Tru Blu:

quote:

Originally posted by StigNasty:

quote:

Originally posted by Tru Blu:
Ys is a more difficult album - not for most of us seasoned-listeners, but for many people I think Ys would be difficult to get into. Perhaps it lost a few votes there.

I guess I'm not a "seasoned-listener" then (my first album was "Elton John" in 1971). I can't speak for anyone else, but perhaps Ys lost votes because it's a terrible album that is feeding off of hype. Personally, I think it sounds like early Joni Mitchell - if Joni Mitchell had never learned song structure. The end result is much like a set of fingernails on a blackboard.

Alternatively, it might have lost a lot of votes if people think that music must always adhere to learned structures. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

the caveat of every self-righteous snot.

Wow ... "musique concrete," "churlish," and "caveat" used in one post. I have been persuaded to your point of view by your audaciously-wielded vocabulary!

Seriously, though, new music doesn't emerge from a vacuum. It is part of a long history of influences, responses, challenges, and allusions. If you're on this site, I assume you have some aspiration to be an amateur critic; that is, you want your opinions to have some authority. To appreciate an album from the perspective of a critic, you need to know something about its antecedents (Springsteen for The Hold Steady, the Pixies and Radiohead for TV on the Radio, Van Dyke Parks for Joanna Newsom, etc.)

quote:

Originally posted by TRUC:

oh god, wouldn't the self-conscious pursuit of iconic artifacts in music simply to satisfy some "serious music listener cred" be even worse than somebody who doesnt pretend to be interested in anything other than what's happening now?
statements like that make me not want to BE a serious music listener at all. i'd just bore all my fucking friends by being deluded enough that they should be interested in the history of musique concrete.
hell no. i wouldn't be so churlish to bash on the beach boys in preference of some band from today, but i wouldnt be able to deny that i'd be senselessly bored by it.
i'm missing out on a lot, but i can leave it for the lot that's to come, and i'd rather look forward, honestly.

I don't even know where to begin. Perhaps with your attitude towards music from the past. If you honestly see it as a chore to search for musical gems from the past, rather than a treasure hunt or a voyage of discovery, then I don't think you need worry about attaining any "serious listener cred". Seriously, what a ridiculous attitude.

"the caveat of every self-righteous snot"

Given the arrogance of your post, and your propensity to judge people you don't know,
I can't imagine why you'd "just bore all my fucking friends".

quote:

Originally posted by fearlessweaver:
If you're on this site, I assume you have some aspiration to be an amateur critic; that is, you want your opinions to have some authority.

why the hell would i want to be an amateur critic? i initially came to this forum because i just like the metacritic site setup and wanted to see what the forum is about. yeah, i also like talking about music, but i cant think anyone should consider themselves an authority seeing as how you can't really trust anyone to guide you right if you dont know who they are.

and critics perspective isnt all that hot either. after hearing phrases like "lush soundscapes" and "rewarding on the fiftieth listen" at least 50 times (and it doesnt get better), i dont think a critics perspective is worth getting to know better.

quote:

Originally posted by Borachon:

quote:

Originally posted by TRUC:

(my post)

(blah blah noble bullshit blah) then I don't think you need worry about attaining any "serious listener cred".

exactly, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Borachon:


"the caveat of every self-righteous snot"

Given the arrogance of your post, and your propensity to judge people you don't know,
I can't imagine why you'd "just bore all my fucking friends".

oh please, tell me that wasnt a shit-faced little barb about how only "different" people who have mad "getting it" skills can really understand joanna and therefore like what she does

quote:

Originally posted by fearlessweaver:
To appreciate an album from the perspective of a critic, you need to know something about its antecedents (Springsteen for The Hold Steady, the Pixies and Radiohead for TV on the Radio, Van Dyke Parks for Joanna Newsom, etc.)

I think knowing something about musical history enhances the listening experience for anyone, not just aspiring critics. It can definitely change your perspective on an album if you're familiar with what came before it (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse). If you're seeking out older music simply for "cred", you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons, but I think learning about music history is important for anyone who's actually interested in music, simply because I think they'll get more enjoyment out of something they already love.

You gotta have a foundation to fly off of.

You gotta have ground to stand on to move forward.

I think those metaphors work nicely.

Or not.

quote:

Originally posted by TRUC:

quote:

Originally posted by Borachon:


"the caveat of every self-righteous snot"

Given the arrogance of your post, and your propensity to judge people you don't know,
I can't imagine why you'd "just bore all my fucking friends".

oh please, tell me that wasnt a shit-faced little barb about how only "different" people who have mad "getting it" skills can really understand joanna and therefore like what she does

I admit you've lost me now. I can't see how what I said in any way relates to Joanna Newsom. What a silly person you are.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
I think knowing something about musical history enhances the listening experience for anyone, not just aspiring critics. It can definitely change your perspective on an album if you're familiar with what came before it (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse). If you're seeking out older music simply for "cred", you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons, but I think learning about music history is important for anyone who's actually interested in music, simply because I think they'll get more enjoyment out of something they already love.

Agreed. If someone had never listened to the Beach Boys before (beyond the obvious songs everyone knows), I wouldn't give them SMiLE and expect them to have a similar reaction to mine. That's what I love about the Beach Boys albums so much. If you pick up their albums that are doubled together, the booklets have descriptions for each of the tracks and really offer up some knowlege nuggets. The album Smiley Smile gave lots of background into the whole SMiLE saga.

The more effort you put into anything, the more reward you get out of it. I know thta's universal, but you can't take short cuts to the greatest rewards. It's like the whole thing of jumping on a sports teams' bandwagon during the playoffs. You just don't get the same reward as the person who's been there through the ups and downs.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:

quote:

Originally posted by fearlessweaver:
To appreciate an album from the perspective of a critic, you need to know something about its antecedents (Springsteen for The Hold Steady, the Pixies and Radiohead for TV on the Radio, Van Dyke Parks for Joanna Newsom, etc.)

I think knowing something about musical history enhances the listening experience for anyone, not just aspiring critics. It can definitely change your perspective on an album if you're familiar with what came before it (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse).

thats another problem unfortunately. the few cases where i was able to make links like this i just enjoyed it less. it wasnt this great little thing with this own aesthetic and way of understanding the present. it would be overtly, unabashedly rooted in the past. and while i realize that, yes, all things are, it still becomes something that obstructs the direct understanding of the album or song by itself. what's wrong with building a new foundation of understanding off of what's coming out now? it'd certainly help stop the depreciative recycling we seem doomed to rehash with every asshole mag touting revivalist BS like wolfmother.
i didnt mean the last post as a personal attack, just... honestly, more people than not treat music as a whole one-upmanship of thinking "man, i better know what this is all about so i dont sound like an idiot!", which is fine by itself, but plays into knowing for authority's sake. and that's such a shaky ground in music (most results come in the ability to definitively say something that's not ignorant, but just as off-putting) i just prefer to think i'm not above or below what my ears agree with.
NO SHAME.

quote:

Originally posted by Borachon:


I admit you've lost me now. I can't see how what I said in any way relates to Joanna Newsom. What a silly person you are.

??
that particular objection was to someone discussing joanna newsome. christ, read a thread, guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Borachon:

Given the arrogance of your post, and your propensity to judge people you don't know,
I can't imagine why you'd "just bore all my fucking friends".


Orignally posted by TRUC:

oh please, tell me that wasnt a shit-faced little barb about how only "different" people who have mad "getting it" skills can really understand joanna and therefore like what she does

No TRUC. I think he was saying that given your move of making an unwarranted attack on someone involved in a conversation that is over, he wouldn't be surprised if you had no friends. Does that clear it up a little bit?

Seriously, why the hostility TRUC? You come in on this argument well after it's over and suddenly you think you can take a giant shit on pE? He, by the way, did his part in resolving it the first time around. No one appreciates that kind of trash talking around here, so leave it out.

quote:

Originally posted by TRUC:

??
that particular objection was to someone discussing joanna newsome. christ, read a thread, guy.

You say objection, I say insult.

I can read a thread. Can you read a post? My post was in relation to your insult, not your opinion on Newsom.

I was going to say more, but less_success just said everything I wanted to.

Man oh man, you guys are in for a big Markf spanking.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Mago:
Man oh man, you guys are in for a big Markf spanking.

Promise?

quote:

Originally posted by Il Mago:
Man oh man, you guys are in for a big Markf spanking.

Y'all are trooouuuubllllle...

remember that scene in anchorman when all the achormen from all the different stations got into a huge brawl?

that is what i am imagnining happening with us soon.

we have the indie people who only like new indie cuz its "scene" in one corner.

we have the oldies but goodies in another that think all the music today is copied directly from their music.

we have the people that believe there should have been more rap on the top 20 list even though we all know rap has gone waay down hill over the years in its quality.

we can't forget about the rednecks in one corner with their cowboy hats and riding horses saying "go garth" or "this ones for billy-ray!" while they charge.

last but not least we have the emo kids in the last corner who are actually too afraid to come out of their corner. you can see the coweling behind trash cans spraypainting senses fail or go panic at the disco on the walls.

haha. i love how my mind works.

Rap music has gone way down hill in quality?

Tell that to Little Brother, Kanye West, Ghostface Killah and the rest of Wu Tang, Lupe Fiasco, Common, The Neptunes/Pharrell, Timbaland/Missy Elliott and hundreds more excellent rap artists that rap music has gone way down hill in quality.

Shows what you know about rap music.

quote:

Originally posted by thomyorkeisgod:
remember that scene in anchorman when all the achormen from all the different stations got into a huge brawl?

that is what i am imagnining happening with us soon.

we have the people that believe there should have been more rap on the top 20 list even though we all know rap has gone waay down hill over the years in its quality.

Sounds to me like you're taking sides against us rap fans. How dare you? If there is an Anchorman style brawl, you can expect to suffer the same fate as Luke Wilson for your hurtful comments!

quote:

Originally posted by less_success:

quote:

Originally posted by Borachon:

Given the arrogance of your post, and your propensity to judge people you don't know,
I can't imagine why you'd "just bore all my fucking friends".


Orignally posted by TRUC:

oh please, tell me that wasnt a shit-faced little barb about how only "different" people who have mad "getting it" skills can really understand joanna and therefore like what she does

No TRUC. I think he was saying that given your move of making an unwarranted attack on someone involved in a conversation that is over, he wouldn't be surprised if you had no friends. Does that clear it up a little bit?

Seriously, why the hostility TRUC? You come in on this argument well after it's over and suddenly you think you can take a giant shit on pE? He, by the way, did his part in resolving it the first time around.

humor the people catching up then. besides, hardly my fault you people can be so objectionable sometimes.

and pE is the only guy who i wasnt attacking and made clear that i wasnt intending to do so. i dont think the argument should have ended there, as there's quite a bit left to discuss about what he was saying, especially without the BS borachon was getting himself in a bunch over