Honestly, I don't think anyone would give him a second listen if he didn't have the "50 States" gimmick.
Michigan is a very good album with or without gimmicks. In Illinois, it's less about the people and more about the facts. And in any case, my mother told me not to call people names so I'll refrain from the g-word. Going overboard praising any one band/person is only going to make the backlash worse, so I figure I'm doing the world a favor, whether the world knows it or not.
Originally posted by hudson: This whole anti-Sufjan thing is akin to Q's review of the Knife. Failure to give an artist their due because of the need to remain different, like you know something everyone else doesn't.
Q overreacted to hype and thought it was appropriate to grind its anti-hipster axe against Silent Shout. So your comparison is at best inaccurate—LT, pE, eric don't have agendas; they just don't like Sufjan. You think he deserves his due, and why? Because you like it. There's nothing overtly original or unique about his music—as well its done—and it ultimately owes its success to its timing.
Same goes for The Knife. Listening to a couple tracks off Skinny Puppy's Vivisect VI made me wonder why something like Silent Shout needs to exist at all ("Testure" is better than anything The Knife will do). Pretty good, entertaining record—it drags a little in the middle—but like Sufjan their music enjoys otherworldly praise from people who either don't care about its, uh, borrowings—if that's the case, don't dare deride the seen-it-all-before revival bands—or are completely unaware of music events from the past. The audience for both Sufjan and The Knife skews a lot younger, so it wouldn't surprise me if the latter is the case, as LT already said.
There's nothing wrong with that, and no one here pretends to know everything about music. We're disputing the superfluous use of the word "genius" to describe anything and everything that seems new or different. They are not geniuses—or at least haven't done anything yet worthy of that descriptor.
Posts: 1652 | Location: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: 15 September 2004
I would most likily be classified as "young" and have only been "seriously" seeking out and listening to music for a few years, so I of course find sufjan's music (especially his approach to music) to be thoroughly original. Out of curiosity, what previous song writers have written in the same narrative style as sufjan and have done it as well or better?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Cruijff,
Posts: 27 | Location: Various Midwest Locals | Registered: 17 July 2006
Sufjan Stevens always reminded me of Nick Drake but of course I like Nick Drake much better even though I thought Illinois was the best album of last year.
"Violence, she solved everything"
Posts: 1241 | Location: Nowhere | Registered: 31 July 2006
Originally posted by ericq75 I don't think anyone would give him a second listen if he didn't have the "50 States" gimmick.
This isn't a personal shot at you, eric, but I don't understand why any kind of concept has to be a "gimmick". Using the term gimmick brings a load of negative connotation with it. When I think gimmick, I think Slipknot. Gimmick seems more like a method of cashing in without having anything to back it up. I can't imagine that Sufjan thought the 50 states project was going to garner him a load of attention. It doesn't sound like a very commercially successful concept, really.
Can't it just be a creative way to explore music? I just don't see how the 50 states comes off as a gimmick and Sgt. Pepper comes off as a creative idea. To me they're both similiar in that they merely use an unconventional approach to writing songs.
Like I said, it's not a personal shot. I'm just trying to implore members to consider what it means to call something to call something a gimmick.
Posts: 1376 | Location: Valparaiso, IN | Registered: 01 July 2006
Originally posted by ericq75 I don't think anyone would give him a second listen if he didn't have the "50 States" gimmick.
This isn't a personal shot at you, eric, but I don't understand why any kind of concept has to be a "gimmick". Using the term gimmick brings a load of negative connotation with it. When I think gimmick, I think Slipknot. Gimmick seems more like a method of cashing in without having anything to back it up.
I think the 50 state project would be a gimmick, on Suf's part, if he only did it to drum up publicity. I doubt that's the case: I think he actually intends (or did intend at the time) to do it. I just think that's a bigger project than he anticipated, and I doubt if it will come to fruition. I think it's less a gimmick and more biting off more than he could chew.
My problems with the overestimation of genius aside, I admire Sufjan on many levels. He's obviously a talented artist, he's driven and he's good to his fans (I've seen him play some clubs twice and meet with all of the fans). While I think the acclaim he's received may be a little overexaggerated, I think the music world is far better with him in it. I just don't pop in Illinois and let it play like a lot of other people do...
Posts: 3875 | Location: ATL, GA | Registered: 25 May 2004
Originally posted by less_success: Like I said, it's not a personal shot. I'm just trying to implore members to consider what it means to call something to call something a gimmick.
While I still think the 50 States project is a gimmick (he has gotten lots of publicity because of it, and pretty much everyone who sings his praises mentions his "ambition"), I don't necessarily think the term "gimmick" carries a negative connotation. There's lots of bands I like that employ gimmicks - the White Stripes & the Ramones are two good examples.
----- Stay gold, Ponyboy. Stay gold.
Posts: 5272 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
On an unrelated note, the new one by the Damnwells, Air Stereo, has been thoroughly enjoyable over the last few days. I enjoyed their first full-length (Bastards of the Beat) but I wasn't blown away by it. They were shit-hot live, though, and this new record is a lovely, summery blast of mellow alt-pop. It sounds like Del Amitri meets mid-period Wilco (pre-YHF), and the Del Amitri comparison is not damning with faint praise: I love me some Del Amitri.
Posts: 3875 | Location: ATL, GA | Registered: 25 May 2004
I think the 50 state project would be a gimmick, on Suf's part, if he only did it to drum up publicity. I doubt that's the case: I think he actually intends (or did intend at the time) to do it. I just think that's a bigger project than he anticipated, and I doubt if it will come to fruition. I think it's less a gimmick and more biting off more than he could chew.
Actually, I've read interviews where Sufjan says that he first declard his 50-states goal so it would garner his music more attention, but after his music becamse so successful, he felt like he had to follow through. I don't necessarily think that pursuing a concept necessarily means that the music that results will be inferior. I know that for a while Mark Twain went bankrupt and had to write stories he knew would sell well to keep him out of debt, but some of the stories he wrote during those times were great.
Posts: 3947 | Location: NE Indiana | Registered: 14 April 2005
I love Sufjan, but I understand people's criticism of his work. He's not for everyone.
However, I don't get people saying that he wouldn't be popular(sortof) w/o the 50 States project. People, it's obvious why he has gained so much popularity:
1. His music doesn't sound like anything else being produced right now, which helps drum up rabid followers
2. He has a broad base of indie appeal. His music is obscure enough to woo indie nerds on the internet, and pretty enough to have thousands of teenage girls crying everytime they hear "Chicago". It's like The Arcade Fire.
3. His shit is catchy.
4. It's the perfect mood music for TV Shows, movies, trailers, etc. Sufjan's stuff is gonna be played on trailers and TV shows for a LONG time.
That's all I have to say about that.
++++
ANYways...the new Decemberists is AWESOME. I would say either their best album, or a close second behind Castaways and Cutouts. It's far more experimental than any of their other LPs, and it flows together more than anything they've done.
I was desperately afraid that Picaresque marked the beginning of a permanently poppy, self-contained Decemberists, but they have obviously gone the opposite way. This album is heartwrenching, but not as cute or cloying as their other recent work.
What's the Decemberist's new album called I actually enjoyed some of Picaresque... Do you know when it comes out because I'm pretty sure it hasn't been released yet.
"Violence, she solved everything"
Posts: 1241 | Location: Nowhere | Registered: 31 July 2006
Originally posted by nathanielkt: I love Sufjan, but I understand people's criticism of his work. He's not for everyone.
However, I don't get people saying that he wouldn't be popular(sortof) w/o the 50 States project. People, it's obvious why he has gained so much popularity:
1. His music doesn't sound like anything else being produced right now, which helps drum up rabid followers
2. He has a broad base of indie appeal. His music is obscure enough to woo indie nerds on the internet, and pretty enough to have thousands of teenage girls crying everytime they hear "Chicago". It's like The Arcade Fire.
3. His shit is catchy.
4. It's the perfect mood music for TV Shows, movies, trailers, etc. Sufjan's stuff is gonna be played on trailers and TV shows for a LONG time.
That's all I have to say about that.
++++
ANYways...the new Decemberists is AWESOME. I would say either their best album, or a close second behind Castaways and Cutouts. It's far more experimental than any of their other LPs, and it flows together more than anything they've done.
I was desperately afraid that Picaresque marked the beginning of a permanently poppy, self-contained Decemberists, but they have obviously gone the opposite way. This album is heartwrenching, but not as cute or cloying as their other recent work.
This may end up being top 5 for me.
Im slightly disappointed with the new album. While there are a number of enjoyable tracks, there are a few that I just can't stand. Picaresque was much better IMO.
I'm curious what people think about 'Ten Silver Drops,' the new Secret Machines record. If I remember right, p4k panned it (I can't access the site right now to check). But I gave it a listen anyway and I thought it was pretty enjoyable. They seem to keep moving popward since their debut with marconi's radio. So waddaya think?
I haven't been to this forum for a while. And, boy, was comming back to it a HUGE LETDOWN. Mainly because of all the Sufjan hating going on.
YOU GUYS DISSING SUFJAN ARE ALL IDIOTS.
But i can't say i'm suprised. When someone gets so much praise, i guess its only a matter of time before disliking him becomes the 'cool, i'm so indie that i can't like anything that everyone else likes' thing to do.
I read someone say that they hadn't heard anything on illiniose that they handn't heard before, or that his 50 states claim was a gimmick. Thats the biggest load of bullshit i've read in a long time.
Fact of that matter is, that he is without a doubt, one of if not THE most talented musician of our era. If Illinoise was still under the radar, you would all still be praising it.
Are you calling me an idiot and shaming me for not falling all over myself for Sufjan? That is truly an apologist remark, and is a bit sad in a funny way.
Posts: 3130 | Location: FoCo | Registered: 07 January 2005
So I'm assuming we're idiots just because we don't like an artist you like? Nice.
As I said in my previous post, I've listened to his stuff many times with an open mind, and I'm still not impressed.
It has nothing to do with the hype, as I listened to Michigan long before Illinois came out, and long before Sufjan was an indie household name. Plus, there are lots of heavily hyped bands I enjoy.
If you don't think Sufjan's sound hasn't been done before, check out most of the British Folk from the late 60s. And if you don't think the 50 States thing is a gimmick, I don't know what to tell you. As RL pointed out, Sufjan himself stated that the idea was a way to get attention. That's pretty much the definition of a gimmick.
----- Stay gold, Ponyboy. Stay gold.
Posts: 5272 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
Originally posted by nathanielkt: I love Sufjan, but I understand people's criticism of his work. He's not for everyone.
However, I don't get people saying that he wouldn't be popular(sortof) w/o the 50 States project. People, it's obvious why he has gained so much popularity:
1. His music doesn't sound like anything else being produced right now, which helps drum up rabid followers
2. He has a broad base of indie appeal. His music is obscure enough to woo indie nerds on the internet, and pretty enough to have thousands of teenage girls crying everytime they hear "Chicago". It's like The Arcade Fire.
3. His shit is catchy.
4. It's the perfect mood music for TV Shows, movies, trailers, etc. Sufjan's stuff is gonna be played on trailers and TV shows for a LONG time.
That's all I have to say about that.
++++
ANYways...the new Decemberists is AWESOME. I would say either their best album, or a close second behind Castaways and Cutouts. It's far more experimental than any of their other LPs, and it flows together more than anything they've done.
I was desperately afraid that Picaresque marked the beginning of a permanently poppy, self-contained Decemberists, but they have obviously gone the opposite way. This album is heartwrenching, but not as cute or cloying as their other recent work.
This may end up being top 5 for me.
Im slightly disappointed with the new album. While there are a number of enjoyable tracks, there are a few that I just can't stand. Picaresque was much better IMO.
What songs can't you stand?
I ask because this is the first Decemberists that I think could really have a lot of crossover appeal to people who don't necessarily like their other work.
