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Enthusiast |
You sheep ! Laugh, I say. Now cry. Now think ponderously. Feel good about the world. Clap. Move along. Don't forget to clean up after yourselves.
This franchise was surprisingly resilient against the craven corporate need to water down the story for maximum mass appeal. With No. 3, Sam Raimi finally gives in. Boo hoo. The story, never pretentiously high drama to begin with, had enough simple authentic feeling that I found rather likeable. But Raimi, perhaps feeling the pressure to ensure large dividends for all interested parties, unleashes the schmaltz with a fury I did not think he possessed. Bye bye beret; out comes the tophat. |
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Jedi |
Over to you monkey!
 'for my purpose holds to sail beyond the sunset, and the baths of all the western stars, until I die.' |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I saw it this weekend, and I thought it stunk pretty bad. What started out as a decent franchise is taking a Batman & Robin style turn for the worse. I was embarrassed for all parties involved. I'll be surprised if Dunst and MacGuire show up for the next one.
----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Jedi |
Syzygy, do you even like action movies? So far I have yet to see a thread from you that says, "I loved it!" I have seen you liked "Underworld", now THERE'S a movie I hated. The acting was awful & the story was slow. Ooops, sorry, this is your new 'I hated it' thread on "Spider-Man 3". I'm not sure what your problem was because you've stayed pretty vague on what you hated. What "schmaltz" are you refering to? You didn't like Mary Jane & Peter's troubled relationship? Was it Harry's involvement to destroy it? Maybe it was Sandman's daughter? Or were you talking about all of it? Every "Spider-Man" flick so far has had sentimentality in it. This one was nothing new. Now, '300' comics weren't as popular as 'Spider-Man', so have you read HIS comics? They're full of personal problems for the hero & his villians. Of course, you're now going to accuse me of being a "fan boi" & that I'm a loyal Stan Lee fan
 . So, I have a question for you, does creating threads such as these make you feel like a REAL critic?What? I didn't think it was the best comic movie I'd ever seen, but it was in no way comparible to THAT dreck! I didn't see nipples on any of the suits, did you? The villains were well cast, & they certainly weren't as over the top as Sh*tmocker's. The action & effects were great! Alot lined right up with what happened in the comics, if not changed just a tad. There were some aspects I was unhappy with, but I enjoyed the movie overall. "I can't live the buttoned down life like all of you! I want it all: the terrifying lows, the dizzying highs, the creamy middles! Sure, I might offend a few of the blue-noses with my cocky stride and musky odor - oh, I'll never be the darling of the so-called 'City Fathers' who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and talk about what's to be done with this Monkey_Boy?!" |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
It's only a matter of time. If they spent a quarter of the time the spent on special effects developing a decent script, it may have been all right. It seems the people who produce these superhero franchises are so eager to make additional films a bigger spectacle, they forget what made the first installment likeable in the first place. They figure if one is good, ten is better. Say what you will about special effects, they don't make a movie. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Jedi |
No, they don't. I brung up the action & effects because Sh*tmocker's films had neither one. They were truly awful & completely unwatchable. To this day, I've never seen one of them all the way through. What made the movie was all the stuff I brung up in response to Syzygy. All of the movies had their sappy moments (what wasn't sappy about the end of the first movie when the New Yorker's attack the Green Goblin? And my brother hates the train scene after Spider-Man stops the train, where everyone stands around an unmasked Spider-Man & promises they won't tell & then stand between Spider-Man & Doc Ock, oh, & let's not forget the "Saving a baby from a burning building" moments in both movies), & I will agree that this one laid them on a tad thick, but that still doesn't make the flick awful. I've talked about the negatives in this film & the lack of development of Gwen & Captain Stacy, but that only made me lower my rating to an 8/10 or B+. It in NO WAY deserves a 0 or an F. I still had a good time. I mean, this movie was WAAAY better than "Blade Trinity". The villains were explored as much as they were in the comics. The symbiote had a little explanation, but I've noticed some people couldn't understand how it found Peter. It was drawn to him because it could feel the power he held & desired it. Sure, I thought it crashing to Earth on a meteor was dumb since they introduced JJ's son as an astronaut in the previous film & he was how the symbiote got to Earth in the 'toon. However, it did bring out the worst in Spider-Man & he did get it off in a bell tower at the very church where Eddie was praying. If you have a problem with that, it's not the movie you hate, it's the comics. The movie even gave Sandman more depth by making him a reluctant villain. Eddie Brock hated Parker for getting him fired, the movie added his losing Gwen to Peter to give him a little more reason to hate him. I thought they did a great job with Venom, if only they didn't kill him!!!! You can't kill Venom!!! He's Spider-Man's greatest foe!!! To just kill him off is just--I'll stop now. They gave Harry the same treatment the comics did,he died saving Spider-Man's life. Maybe because I'm so familiar with the comics, I enjoyed the little references (the lizard skeleton in Dr. Connors office was a nice touch) & already knew plenty of the characters, I didn't need things explained to me the way some people do. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Monkey_Boy, "I can't live the buttoned down life like all of you! I want it all: the terrifying lows, the dizzying highs, the creamy middles! Sure, I might offend a few of the blue-noses with my cocky stride and musky odor - oh, I'll never be the darling of the so-called 'City Fathers' who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and talk about what's to be done with this Monkey_Boy?!" |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I think that's a lousy way to approach a film. I used to read Spiderman comics as a kid, but you can't (as a filmmaker) just target people who already know the story. Harry's story arc was probably the most fleshed out in the film. The rest of the characters had little or no development. I think you could've dropped the Sandman out of the movie and it would've made little or no difference, except the $100 million they would've saved in their SFX budget. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Jedi |
What more did we need to learn about the villains? We know what Sandman's motivation was, we know why Eddie hated Peter. They even went so far as to recreate the scene of Uncle Ben's death to show how Flint Marko had a part in it. What else did we NEED to know? We did need a villain until Venom showed up. Who else was there to keep Spider-Man busy until he decided to ditch the suit? As we had seen, Harry was no match for the black suit. I wouldn't take anything away from what it has, but I would've made Gwen & Captain Stacy's parts actually contribute to the story. Those parts seemed to be the only ones that really needed "fleshing out". It seems they were stuck in strictly for the fans, but it was a slap in the face since these characters didn't go anywhere. Those were parts that could've been cut & nobody woulda missed 'em. "I can't live the buttoned down life like all of you! I want it all: the terrifying lows, the dizzying highs, the creamy middles! Sure, I might offend a few of the blue-noses with my cocky stride and musky odor - oh, I'll never be the darling of the so-called 'City Fathers' who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and talk about what's to be done with this Monkey_Boy?!" |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
It's tough to give my rationale for hating the Sandman story without giving away too many spoilers, but I'll say that:
1. His actions didn't match his motivations. Going on a city-wide rampage and trying to kill Spiderman just because your daughter is sick is pretty lame. 2. The ending to the Sandman story is even lamer. After wiping out a good chunk of New York and beating Spiderman within an inch of his life, he just says "Aw Shucks, I'm just a poor, misunderstood guy. Sorry." and walks away? They could've used that time to flesh out the Eddie Brock (and Gwen) characters, ease Brock's transition from smarmy weasel to supervillian, and maybe even do more with the Harry-Peter relationship. By the way, the Harry-Peter relationship was far more intriguing than the Peter-MJ relationship. Half way through the film, I was hoping Peter would dump MJ's whiny ass and hook up with his Russian landlord's hot pigtailed daughter. Trust me, my version of Spiderman 3 would've been a terrific film. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Enthusiast |
I'm with you nomercy. The Sandman was lame and kind of boring. Thomas Hayden Church, who's a fairly capable actor, really did nothing for me. He was wooden and stoic and I had absoluletly no sympathy for him.
The most interesting angle was the Eddie Brock/Gwen Stacey story, but unfortunately it wasn't focused on that much. I would have much prefered a whole movie dedicated to the black costume saga, with more emphasis on the whole Venom vs. Spidey feud. They have the best duality/foil thing going in the comic book world besides Joker and Batman. Topher Grace was convincing as Venom, but very underused. I got a feeling that this is going to be the last Spidey movie (at least with Dunst and McGuire in it) so Raimi felt the need to tie up all of the lose ends and stuff as much plot as he could in to it. And there were plenty of corny (not campy) scenes like MJ and Harry dancing, Peter playing the piano, dancing and smacking MJ at the jazz club. Peter also looked liked Jarvis Cocker or Jared Leto with his hair in front of his eyes and his black leisure suit. But saying all that I was still entertained by the action sequences, especially with Venom vs. Spidey at the end. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I thought he looked like a cross between Conor Oberst and Pete Wentz. The scenes with Peter acting like a douchebag in the black suit were totally corny and another black mark on the film. The suit is supposed to make you more aggressive, not make you dance down the street like John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Participant |
Ok, Spiderman3 definitely does not deserve an F or not close to it. Such people need to look at the countless other comic adaptations that is way not better than this movie and don't exaggerate to try to prove a point.
I agree that spiderman3 was disappointing, perhaps from too much hype and hoping that it will top the amazing prequels. However, it was decent, with a minute drop of good. But I agree with ericg75 and others in that there are too many meandering storylines, and many characters/relationships should have been more explored. In addition to eric75 points: Sandman's samaritan nature to help his daughter is not fully explained in the many devious ways he take against spiderman and the city. He seems like a genuinely good man with bad luck, but why does he need to risk more jail time trying to get the money? His daughter's situation doesn't seem desperate enough for him to commit the numerous acts that caused him to go to jail, even after his horrific incident with Ben Parker's death. I just wanted more emotion out of him, and maybe his intense struggle to try to balance his daughter's life and the lives of Spiderman and the citizens of the town. There is an explanation for Brock to hate Parker, but no reason for him to go to church, pray to Jesus, and ask him to kill parker? Brock's spirituality was never brought up. Why does Brock need the photo job so much, i mean what's his background. We need to know the fire inside of him that makes him become the great Venom. They should have made Parker become more dependent upon Venom, and heighten the battle to rid himself of the symbiont. They could have showed the psychological breakdown and conflict in Parker's head or something. Maybe he couldn't defeat Sandman and the new Goblin, and needed the Venom suit. Maybe he needed help from MJ and even Harry to get rid of the symbiont. If they got rid of Sandman, these points could be fulffilled, and the love triangle between Harry, Peter, and MJ could also be evoked. However, the movie wasn't at all bad. There are numerous excellent points for the movie. It's an exhilarating, fun, entertaining movie. 5.5/10 |
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Jedi |
This seems to be the motto of nearly every Metacritic member . Not that I disagree with a thing you said. I was looking forward to some more Harry VS Peter action since Harry's discoveries in the second movie (Peter was Spider-Man & the Green Goblin's Hideout) & I enjoyed what was in the movie, I just wanted a little more. As for Sandman, the first time was for money to help his daughter, the second was to get away from the cops & the third was when he teamed with Venom to get Spidey off his back. In that mindframe, anything sounds plausible. Really, if a prostitute can say she does it for her family, why can't a shape-shifting, uncle shooting, bank robbin' Sandman  ?Ya know, I was talkin' 'bout her with a buddy of mine, just the other day! At a glance, yeah, she's cute, but when you get a reeeeal good look at her, not so much. The strange thing is, I'd STILL go for it !Actually, it not only made him more aggressive, but confident, as well. He was stronger & he knew it. The thing is, he's a dork, he THOUGHT he was cool, & probably remembering how cool John Travolta was in "Saturday Night Fever", he strutted like him. "I can't live the buttoned down life like all of you! I want it all: the terrifying lows, the dizzying highs, the creamy middles! Sure, I might offend a few of the blue-noses with my cocky stride and musky odor - oh, I'll never be the darling of the so-called 'City Fathers' who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and talk about what's to be done with this Monkey_Boy?!" |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
One more point of contention for Spidey3!
In the Uncle Ben flashback, Flint Marko is still wearing that same ugly-ass, size-too-small sweater-shirt. You'd think with a $300 million budget, they could afford to get Thomas Hayden Church more than one outfit to wear. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Jedi |
There are TWO ways to look at this: 1.It's his favorite shirt to wear. It was the shirt he grabbed when he got home. Maybe he couldn't wait to put it on again. 2.We were viewing the flashback through Peter's eyes. He's only known Flint to wear this shirt & nothing else, so naturally, in his vision of the events, he'd put him in the clothes he's currently wearing. "I can't live the buttoned down life like all of you! I want it all: the terrifying lows, the dizzying highs, the creamy middles! Sure, I might offend a few of the blue-noses with my cocky stride and musky odor - oh, I'll never be the darling of the so-called 'City Fathers' who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and talk about what's to be done with this Monkey_Boy?!" |
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Guru |
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Guru |
Oops! Too eager to press the Post Now button.Anyway, since Superman 3 is one of my favorite movies so far this year, I'm inclined to make some comment somewhere on this thread. Specifically, I'd like to pick up on the Sandman and say that this character is rather unique in comic, action hero movies in that his character is much more ambivalent as an evil superhero and one of the few to really have a complex, dual portrayal on screen. It was really nice to see a character that wasn't so stereotypical. Instead of boring, I was kept off-balanced, bewildered, sympathetic, and mixed up with a number of emotions. His humanity came across as well as the turmoil he was suffering as the everyman in America - facing his wits end but still wanting as a parent to do the right thing. His dilemma is much more universal and typical of what many people, especially men are experiencing in the real world today. |
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Participant |
I thought it was good, despite being really cheesy. Anyway it was really entertaining, but if the series keeps going in that direction we could have another Batman and Robin.
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Enthusiast |
the sandman character, and most of the others as well, were written with alot of pretension, but very little of that was actualized in the movie. yes, sandman had this going for him and that; there was a rich strand of revenge; another strand involving the poisonous allure of power, blah blah blah. but raimi could not afford to psycho-dramatize these complexities with any depth and not lose focus of the bottom line. basically, he watered-down the dramatic elements so he could zero in on the CGI. what you are left with is a shallow, clumsily acted soap opera built around superheroes. raimi could just as easily have adopted one of the loonier All My Children episodes (that centered on supernatural mumbo-jumbo) and been no worse off. too embarrasing, really. |
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Jedi |
syzygy.....?......you're right on, son.
 'for my purpose holds to sail beyond the sunset, and the baths of all the western stars, until I die.' |
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