The thing with the whole Nazi fascination, at least at first, with the punks, is that they were rebelling (with the skinheads, that's a totally different story). People like SV and Lou Reed sported swastikas because they were the ultimate in offensive.
_____________________________ Weep to Water the Trees.
"This is my main concern with Obama; what if he has been groomed since childhood to blend in with the zionists and infidels? What if he has been led along by a radical islamic terrorist organization and positioned to become an influential politician?
What if Obama gets into White House and turns out to be some crazy muslim terrorist? What do we do then? We'll be pretty screwed. It could happen." -- by some fucking nutjob
Posts: 1996 | Location: The Noog, TN | Registered: 08 April 2007
I always thought that SV wearing the swastika was totally idiotic. Sure, he wanted to offend people, but he was probably too stupid or doped up or uninformed to realize that the Nazis represent the ultimate in conformism, which is something that the Sex Pistols thought they were against. Didn't they complain about the Queen of England and call it a "fascist regime?" So the Queen's regime is bad because it's fascist, but it's cool to wear a swastika? Huh? I have no respect for Sid Vicious. Glen Matlock rules!
Originally posted by Davo: Agreed. sid vicious was noting but a pimply faced hack. who the hell actually likes their (loosly called) music?
Sid Vicious could barely play a note, but that takes nothing away from what the original Sex Pistols accomplished, nor does it diminish the brilliance of Never Mind. And yeah, SV was an idiot. It's been discussed on these boards before, but the biggest reason there has been a Sex Pistols critical backlash has to do with Malcolm McClaren.
_____________________________ Weep to Water the Trees.
"This is my main concern with Obama; what if he has been groomed since childhood to blend in with the zionists and infidels? What if he has been led along by a radical islamic terrorist organization and positioned to become an influential politician?
What if Obama gets into White House and turns out to be some crazy muslim terrorist? What do we do then? We'll be pretty screwed. It could happen." -- by some fucking nutjob
Posts: 1996 | Location: The Noog, TN | Registered: 08 April 2007
Originally posted by playdough: I always thought that SV wearing the swastika was totally idiotic. Sure, he wanted to offend people, but he was probably too stupid or doped up or uninformed to realize that the Nazis represent the ultimate in conformism, which is something that the Sex Pistols thought they were against. Didn't they complain about the Queen of England and call it a "fascist regime?" So the Queen's regime is bad because it's fascist, but it's cool to wear a swastika? Huh? I have no respect for Sid Vicious. Glen Matlock rules!
I love the Sex Pistols. The swastika was meant to be ironic.
Everyone who posted something here is an idiot. (Including me).
Let me break it down for y'all.
1. The punk culture is to be as offensive and disturbing as possible. Thats not an insult, its a fact. Sid Vicious wearing the Swatsika in the UK at that time was one of the more offensive things you can do. Now, that doesnt mean he supports Nazi's, and even if he did, it was just for the culture. Sid Vicious probably didnt care that Nazi's were fascists, he just wanted to offend the Queen.
2. Sid Vicious is NOT the spokesman for the Sex Pistols. Just because he wears swatsika t-shirts doesnt meann that Johnny Rotten, Steve Jones, and Paul Cook did. So dont include the Sex Pistols in this conversation.
3. In Punk Rock, no one cares if you are good musically (to the punk culture), but how hardcore and crazy you are. GG Allin for example. God-awful singer, but he's considered a punk legend because of his fucking crazy ass, disturbing actions on (and off) stage.
3. In Punk Rock, no one cares if you are good musically (to the punk culture), but how hardcore and crazy you are. GG Allin for example. God-awful singer, but he's considered a punk legend because of his fucking crazy ass, disturbing actions on (and off) stage.
which is exactly why 99% of punk music sucks
Posts: 517 | Location: San Diego | Registered: 26 November 2007
3. In Punk Rock, no one cares if you are good musically (to the punk culture), but how hardcore and crazy you are. GG Allin for example. God-awful singer, but he's considered a punk legend because of his fucking crazy ass, disturbing actions on (and off) stage.
which is exactly why 99% of punk music sucks
Doesn't 99% of all music suck?
_____________________________ Weep to Water the Trees.
"This is my main concern with Obama; what if he has been groomed since childhood to blend in with the zionists and infidels? What if he has been led along by a radical islamic terrorist organization and positioned to become an influential politician?
What if Obama gets into White House and turns out to be some crazy muslim terrorist? What do we do then? We'll be pretty screwed. It could happen." -- by some fucking nutjob
Posts: 1996 | Location: The Noog, TN | Registered: 08 April 2007
3. In Punk Rock, no one cares if you are good musically (to the punk culture), but how hardcore and crazy you are. GG Allin for example. God-awful singer, but he's considered a punk legend because of his fucking crazy ass, disturbing actions on (and off) stage.
:sigh:
Ozzy Osbourne, KISS, R. Kelly, 50 Cent...
We all have them.
Posts: 337 | Location: AVA | Registered: 24 June 2006
Originally posted by DJCookieDoh: Everyone who posted something here is an idiot. (Including me).
Let me break it down for y'all.
1. The punk culture is to be as offensive and disturbing as possible. Thats not an insult, its a fact. Sid Vicious wearing the Swatsika in the UK at that time was one of the more offensive things you can do. Now, that doesnt mean he supports Nazi's, and even if he did, it was just for the culture. Sid Vicious probably didnt care that Nazi's were fascists, he just wanted to offend the Queen.
2. Sid Vicious is NOT the spokesman for the Sex Pistols. Just because he wears swatsika t-shirts doesnt meann that Johnny Rotten, Steve Jones, and Paul Cook did. So dont include the Sex Pistols in this conversation.
3. In Punk Rock, no one cares if you are good musically (to the punk culture), but how hardcore and crazy you are. GG Allin for example. God-awful singer, but he's considered a punk legend because of his fucking crazy ass, disturbing actions on (and off) stage.
Where are you coming from? Did you just inform me of something I didn't know?
I think you might wanna tone that attitude down, punk.
To most people in our society, the swastika represents something violent and depraved. When a person who led a violent and depraved life wears a swastika, the irony fails to come through.
I agree, playdough. I don't care if it's bad taste or bad judgement (Vicious seemed to lack both qualities), I cannot support anyone who displays such a symbol. It represents the ultimate in hate: murdering people for no other reason than their race. Whether there is irony or not, I'm offended at swastikas. I think most people who paid even the slightest attention in history class would agree.
I don't think you're supporting him by listening to their music. And, as stated before, Sid Vicious was not the band's spokesperson (although, because of bs like this, the general public and media made him that role).
Gee thanks for breakin' it all down for us all djcookiedoh.
quote:
1. The punk culture is to be as offensive and disturbing as possible.
That's baloney. There are certain factions of the punk culture that try to offend and shock, but that's only a small percentage of punks. Ever heard of the Buzzcocks?
quote:
2. Sid Vicious is NOT the spokesman for the Sex Pistols.
No kidding.
quote:
3. In Punk Rock, no one cares if you are good musically (to the punk culture), but how hardcore and crazy you are.
Once again, you have taken a broad stereotype of punk rock and stated it to be the truth. Steve Jones is actually a decent guitarist, Topper Headon (he was in the Clash) is a great drummer, and what about Robert Quine (of the Voidoids)? It's true that punk rock, in general, eschews virtuosity, but these guys were all in punk bands and they all cared about their musicality.
This is a punk rock forum. If you want to talk down to people, you better be sure that you know what you're talking about.
