Am I the only one who thinks that the Sex Pistols are outrageously overrated and have very little musical talent? And that the surviving band members are just corporate sell outs (namely Johnny Rotten)?

I sure hope you are...
These guys had very little musical talent to begin with, but managed to record one of the best rock n roll records of all time. You also have to remember that they filled a void which had existed in british rock until they came along.. They, and a few other groups, single-handedly made rock interesting for the kids.
Of course there are so many myths surrounding the group. They were made into a monster by the media. Whether they are corporate sell outs or not... I don't blame anyone for making a few quid extra through their music.

I'm not the biggest Pistol's fan, but the whole "lack of musical talent" argument always irks me. You're forgetting that one of the important aspects of punk was the idea that anyone could do it. One of the goals of many early punk groups was to de-mistify the whole writing/recording process. It was encouraging you to release your own record. It was in fact considered a virtue for non-musicians to say "I want to do that too!" and release their own stuff. You can argue that this particular aspect ended up crippling growth in punk, but it sure did inspire a lot of people to start playing instruments.

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And that the surviving band members are just corporate sell outs (namely Johnny Rotten)?

Johnny Rotten is kind of a strange figure in music. At different times he's definitely been a borderline sellout, while at others he's done things that a sellout clearly would not do. I'm not sure you can call someone a sellout for opting not to capitalize on the success of punk and deciding to form Public Image Ltd instead. At the same time, he's on that ridiculous Battle of the Bands show now. Bit of a strange guy, I guess.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sans_success,

for guys that supposedly suck they sure rocked our asses off,eh?

Of course they sucked. That's why they were so good!

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

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Originally posted by Duncan Black:
Of course they sucked. That's why they were so good!

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

Kinda like GG Allin

John Lydon was never a "sell out" as you put it. Granted, he will do anything for money but he always would. You forget, he was piss-poor at the time and the Pistols was his only option. He never wanted to be a "punk". Also I agree with Sans_Success that punk was a DIY thing and it wasnt about "musical talent", or atleast not from a technical standpoint.

GG Allin was a different breed altogether! Sluts in the City and stuff like I hate you and you hate me....priceless. I remember hearing the stories of where he'd crap on stage and then cut himself with broken beer bottles then smear the crap on himself.

Sex Pistols had that one great album, Problems, GOd Save the Queen - good stuff. They are overrated IMHO.

I think we have to put them into context.

Maybe they were overrated. It's entirely possible to argue that they just couldn't be bothered - they certainly expressed that aesthetic in the song I'm a Lazy Sod.

It matters not - For better or worse, under the leadership of Malcolm McClaren they changed the music industry and contributed to the evolution of popular music. The musical climate altered dramatically after the Sex Pistols. For that, they are worthy of attention, even if it's just as a historical footnote.

And it was a lot of fun.

I think everyone is forgetting that the Clash were coming up at the same time, and not only did they do everything that you people claim was virtuous about the pistols (they sucked, so it was a DIY thing, et cetera) the Clash had going for them as well in the early goings. Pick up a guitar and form a power chord, now you can play every song off their first album. and while you can certainly do the same thing with the pistols (only) album, the Clash's songs are soooo much better and much more relevant then and now. Also, you can thank the pistols for the millions of kids that grow up with a flawed understanding of anarchism with their "I'm gonna be a total dick because I'm an Anarchist!" (actually Atom and His Package has a good song about the exact person I just described, "Anarchy means that I litter" check it out) These same idiots will tell you they're an anarchist, and then give you a blank look when you say things like, "so you're into Howard Zinn?", "have you seen the documentary on Sacco and Vanzetti?" or "If you're an anarchist, maybe you can explain Why Emma Goldman is such a cunt?"

anyway, i'm digressing here. Never mind the Bollocks was total Bollocks, and you should disregard this album entirely, and pretend like punk started in 1976, when the Clash formed. Just look at the two frontmen: Joe Strummer was the lead singer/guitarist for one of, if not the most, influential punk bands in history, experimented with new styles of music and each clash album evolved into something entirely new, formed another band that kicks ass, and then had the decency to die before he did anything embarassing.

John Lydon has bad teeth, recorded a couple of shitty albums, hosted a skateboarding video, and still clings on to the one thing he ever did in his life that people (for some reason) paid attention to.


tl;dr
The Clash > The Sex Pistols.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jesuschristdotcom,

I certainly agree that The Clash were better then Sex Pistols in pretty much every way, but to take away what the Pistols were just because of that is unfair. That's like saying "The Beatles were better then The Stones so The Stones suck." Seems like kind of flawed logic to me. Besides, the Pistols were playing gigs before The Clash even formed, man. You've gotta give a little credit where credit is due.

quote:

Originally posted by jesuschristdotcom:

John Lydon has bad teeth, recorded a couple of shitty albums, hosted a skateboarding video, and still clings on to the one thing he ever did in his life that people (for some reason) paid attention to.

See, now that's just not true either. You should listen to Public Image Ltd.'s first few albums before you make that kind of statement. Metal Box is a great record.

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tl;dr
The Clash > The Sex Pistols.

I'd also add that Wire > The Sex Pistols.

Not that I'm taking anything away from the Sex Pistols, but Wire's album "Pink Flag" is an absolute masterpiece.

It's pretty easy to argue that lots of bands were/are better than the Sex Pistols, but maybe that's missing the point.

The whole aesthetic of the band was built around being offensive, talentless and generally unpleasant which hadn't been done on such a grand scale before. Many people at the time wondered what the 'youth of today' were coming to, listening to this horrid din performed by snotty obnoxious morons. In the cultural climate of the time, they provided some much needed excitement in popular music.

The Clash may have been more politically aware and Wire may have been artistically superior, but the Pistols were much more fun. Based on pure entertainment, they would win our bizarre contest hands down.

It is also possible to argue that the Clash would have been a different story if the Pistols had not existed. Lydon and co were of their time and need to be placed in context.

Additionally, Lydon is a very interesting figure in music and should not be underestimated. He has a unique back catalogue featuring collaborations with everyone from Leftfield to Steve Vai. His interviews and opinions are often fascinating, if occasionally misguided.

However, without the influence of the Pistols we may also have been spared the musically redundant offal of Pete Doherty so I suppose it's a double-edged sword.

quote:

Originally posted by DJCookieDoh:
Am I the only one who thinks that the Sex Pistols are outrageously overrated and have very little musical talent?

I think that was the whole point. Syd Vicious seriously did not know how to play bass AT ALL, and his amp would often be turned off at gigs just to the rest of the band could maintain a song. The Sex Pistols weren't about virtuosity. In fact, they were a response to the pretentious mysticism of prog and glam rock, that was clogging the rock charts at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by DJCookieDoh:
And that the surviving band members are just corporate sell outs (namely Johnny Rotten)?

That's kinda sad (namely that he's become a parody of himself, as his role on that UK celebrity survivor attests), but there aren't many musicians who haven't sold out these days. Salvidor Dali once did an Alka Seltzer ad. I'm not saying it's right, but it's not shocking. The Sex Pistols failed to bring about anarchy.

First off, Vicious never played on the Pistols' only legitimate release and borderline "perfect album", Never Mind the Bollocks, and it will always be considered a significant album, whether or not somebody dislikes it, because it meant so much to so many people. I'm not sure how anyone can still blow that "significance" off?

"God Save the Queen"

Yeah, it just astonishes me that anyone would have a problem with a well written rock record as fine as Bollocks.

All the flim-flammery about Sid and legacy and musical talent is beside the point; it's all bollocks!

Now give me an ABBA chord progression and I'll play it backwards....

quote:

Originally posted by Kulturtrager:
Yeah, it just astonishes me that anyone would have a problem with a well written rock record as fine as Bollocks.

All the flim-flammery about Sid and legacy and musical talent is beside the point; it's all bollocks!

Now give me an ABBA chord progression and I'll play it backwards....

Careful now! Glen Matlock tried that and they wanked in his sandwiches.

On the subject of John Lydon being a sell out, I am sad to reveal to non-UK residents, that Johnny has done the unthinkable (click the link) -

John Lydon advertises 'Country Life Butter'

First Ozzy, now John. Is nothing sacred?

And yes - I remember PIL all too well. That's why I'm in shock.

Posted by Duncan Black

quote:

Careful now! Glen Matlock tried that and they wanked in his sandwiches.

Somewhere in a London squat circa 1976.
'Oy, Cooky, where'd ya get this salad cream? Bit fucking thin on old son. Got any more?'

quote:

Originally posted by Kulturtrager:
Posted by Duncan Black

quote:

Careful now! Glen Matlock tried that and they wanked in his sandwiches.

Somewhere in a London squat circa 1976.
'Oy, Cooky, where'd ya get this salad cream? Bit fucking thin on old son. Got any more?'

Let's just hope John Lydon doesn't like the taste of Country Life Butter for similar reasons.