Well, I agree when it comes to their sound (which is why I really like their s/t but not much else) that it wasn't too punk.. and I think they were also on Virgin or some other semi-major label by that point, so no clue. This was one of the causes for Keith Levene to leave and start PiL with Lydon, I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by MajorNougat:
As for punk, I'm not the world's biggest punk fan. I love the Clash, but could they even be described as punk anymore by the time London Calling came around?

I think the spirit of punk is still a big part of the Clash right through Sandinista. I mean talk about F-you, how 'bout following up on one of the most lauded double albums of all time with the most schizophrenic triple album in the history of rock. Much as I like Combat Rock, I think that was pretty mainstream and just a decent rock & roll album. I'd be hard pressed to call it "punk" just as I'd have a hard time calling American Idiot punk.

If Punk was it's own category I wouldn't have to double post. This would be a separate thread. Anyway, play the cards you're dealt, right?

Back in 2001, Spin Magazine (a publication that I rarely pay any attention to) did a 25 year anniversary of Punk issue. In that issue they compiled some pretty interesting lists. I thought I'd post those here to see if they might stir up a little discussion:

The 50 Most Essential Punk Records

01. Ramones ~ Ramones (Sire, 1976)

02. Pink Flag ~ Wire (Harvest, 1977)

03. The Clash ~ The Clash (CBS, 1979)

04. Los Angeles ~ X (Slash, 1980)

05. Germfree Adolescents ~ X-Ray Spex (EMI, 1978)

06. Singles Going Steady ~ Buzzcocks (I.R.S., 1979)

07. Entertainment! ~ Gang of Four (Warner Bros 1979)

08. New Day Rising ~ Husker Du (SST, 1985)

09. The Raincoats ~ The Raincoats (Rough Trade, 1979)

10. Never Mind The Bollocks Here's The Sex Pistols ~ The Sex Pistols (Warner Bros., 1977)

11. Unknown Pleasures ~ Joy Division (Factory, 1979)

12. Blank Generation ~ Richard Hell & the Voidoids (Warner Bros., 1977)

13. In Utero ~ Nirvana (DGC/Sub Pop, 1993)

14. The Modern Dance ~ Pere Ubu (Blank, 1978)

15. Cut ~ The Slits (Antilles, 1979)

16. Bad Brains ~ Bad Brains (ROIR, 1982)

17. Metal Box/Second Edition ~ Public Image Ltd.(Virgin U.K. 1979; Island, 1980)

18. Damaged ~ Black Flag (SST, 1981)

19. Dig Me Out ~ Sleater-Kinney (Kill Rock Stars,1997)

20. Milo Goes To College ~ Descendents (SST, 1982)

21. Album: Generic Flipper ~ Flipper (Subterranean, 1981)

22. Double Nickels On The Dime ~ Minutemen (SST, 1984)

23. No New York ~ Various Artists (Antilles, 1978)

24. Hex Enduction Hour ~ The Fall (Kamera, 1982)

25. Sorry Ma, Forgot To Take Out The Trash ~ The Replacements (Twin/Tone, 1981)

26. Liliput ~ Kleenex/Liliput (Kill Rock Stars reissue, 2001)

27. Complete Discography ~ Minor Threat (Dischord, 1988)

28. Meat Puppets II ~ Meat Puppets (SST, 1983)

29. Pussy Whipped ~ Bikini Kill (Kill Rock Stars,1993)

30. Germs (M.I.A.): The Complete Anthology ~ Germs Slash, 1993)

31. Evol ~ Sonic Youth (SST, 1986)

32. Fear And Whiskey ~ Mekons (Sin, 1985)

33. 13 Songs ~ Fugazi (Dischord, 1990)

34. Vs. ~ Mission of Burma (Ace of Hearts, 1982)

35. ...And Out Come The Wolves ~ Rancid (Epitaph, 1995)

36. Rum Sodomy & The Lash ~ The Pogues (Stiff/MCA,1985)

37. Groovy Hate Fuck ~ Pussy Galore (Shove, 1986)

38. Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! ~ Devo (Warner Bros., 1978)

39. Beat Happening ~ Beat Happening (K, 1985)

40. Is This Real? ~ Wipers (Park Ave., 1980)

41. Songs About Fucking ~ Big Black (Touch and Go,1987)

42. Dookie ~ Green Day (Reprise, 1994)

43. The Land Of Rape And Honey ~ Ministry (Sire,1988)

44. Soul Discharge ~ Boredoms (Shimmy Disc, 1990)

45. Psychocandy ~ The Jesus and Mary Chain (Reprise,1985)

46. Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables ~ Dead Kennedys (I.R.S., 1980)

47. The Battle Of Los Angeles ~ Rage Against the Machine (Epic, 1999)

48. Oi! The Album ~ Various Artists (EMI, 1980)

49. "Repo Man" Original Soundtrack ~ Various Artists(MCA, 1984)

50. It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back ~ Public Enemy (Def Jam, 1988)

Five Pre-Punk Classics:

Fun House ~ The Stooges (1970)

Horses ~ Patti Smith (1975)

White Light/White Heat ~ Velvet Underground (1967)

New York Dolls ~ New York Dolls (1973)

The Modern Lovers ~ The Modern Lovers (1976)



Twenty Greatest Punk Songs Ever:

"Weinerschnitzel" ~ The Descendents

"Blitzkrieg Bop" ~ Ramones

"Anarchy In The U.K." ~ The Sex Pistols

"White Riot" ~ The Clash

"Orgasm Addict" ~ Buzzcocks

"Sex Bomb" ~ Flipper

"12XU" ~ Wire

"Oh Bondage! Up Yours!" ~ X-Ray Spex

"We're Desperate" ~ X

"Pay To Cum" ~ Bad Brains

"Suspect Device" ~ Stiff Little Fingers

"Kill The Poor" ~ Dead Kennedys

"Lights Out" ~ Angry Samoans

"Part Time Punks" ~ Television Personalities

"TV Party" ~ Black Flag

"Institutionalized" ~ Suicidal Tendencies

"Rebel Girl" ~ Bikini Kill

"Touch Me I'm Sick" ~ Mudhoney

"Out Of Step" ~ Minor Threat

"I'm A Bug" ~ Urinals

A couple of things that really stick out for me on the albums list. First, the inclusion of Public Enemy at #50-- it seems like a politically correct pick, and are you telling me that the other 49 albums on the list are better? Is it the only rap album that gets "punk" status? Second, Rage against the Machine gets a nod for an album that's not it's debut? Really?

Please discuss.

Hmm. I guess they're using "punk" in an extremely loose manner.

I'm surprised to see Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables all the way at 46. Behind ...And Out Come The Wolves?

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
Hmm. I guess they're using "punk" in an extremely loose manner.

Yeah, that's another beef of mine. I have a pretty definite line in my mind between punk and post-punk and I don't like the two intermingled. I don't mind hardcore bands getting labeled as punk, because it was America's version. Speaking of which, I just turned on my Punk playlist and the first song that pops up is Bad Religion's "We're Only Going To Die." You think they could of made room for Bad Religion somewhere in the top 50, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by Maximum Jack:
Yeah, that's another beef of mine. I have a pretty definite line in my mind between punk and post-punk and I don't like the two intermingled.

Even if you took away the post-punk bands, there's a lot of artists on the list that are neither. Rage Against The Machine? Public Enemy? Ministry? The Pogues? All are fine bands, but none are punk or even post-punk.

What are the Pogues, Celtic? Irish Drinking music?

Jesus! No Damned!!??!!?? "New Rose" is widely considered as the first punk single (at least on that side of the pond) in 1976. Damned Damned Damned would be in my top 5 punk albums of all-time.

As you can probably tell I'm still listening to my punk playlist.

np: Dead Boys, "Caught With the Meat in Your Mouth"

Can we at least move this thread to Alternative? Under rock thread this what it says: "For classic rock or mainstream rock bands only; for others, use the Alternative or Indie Rock forums." I think we can all at least agree that Punk is not mainstream.

That I can do. And did. Anything else I can do for you, boss?

Damn, that was fast. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
That I can do. And did. Anything else I can do for you, boss?

You got the numbers for this week's powerball?

quote:

Originally posted by Maximum Jack:

np: Dead Boys, "Caught With the Meat in Your Mouth"

Any mention of Dead Boys must surely include "Sonic Reducer".

quote:

Originally posted by m. clayton:

quote:

Originally posted by Maximum Jack:

np: Dead Boys, "Caught With the Meat in Your Mouth"

Any mention of Dead Boys must surely include "Sonic Reducer".

You realize that "np" is shorthand for "now playing"? Interesting that you should mention that though, because I've been working on my list of greatest punk songs and I think "Sonic Reducer" is sitting comfortably atop the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Maximum Jack:
I think "Sonic Reducer" is sitting comfortably atop the list.

"911 is a Joke" is sitting atop mine.

I don't get it. Is that a real song?

Edit: Nevermind, PE lol!

quote:

I love the Clash, but could they even be described as punk anymore by the time London Calling came around?

I saw the Clash twice in one week on the London Calling tour, once at the Orpheum (Boston) and once at Clark University, and they were among the most visceral, fist-pumping, get outta-your-seat-and-into-the-aisles shows I have attended. Granted, at "real" punk rock shows there were no aisles, but the Clash at this point were getting a little too big to play small clubs. Which is in itself an anti-punk indication I suppose; nonetheless, they were still kicking some major ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Maximum Jack:

quote:

Originally posted by m. clayton:

quote:

Originally posted by Maximum Jack:

np: Dead Boys, "Caught With the Meat in Your Mouth"

Any mention of Dead Boys must surely include "Sonic Reducer".

You realize that "np" is shorthand for "now playing"? Interesting that you should mention that though, because I've been working on my list of greatest punk songs and I think "Sonic Reducer" is sitting comfortably atop the list.

To be fair, I didn't realize that, though I did pause to wonder what the "np" stood for. You young people today, sheesh, an acronym for everything...

quote:

Originally posted by Maximum Jack:
I've been working on my list of greatest punk songs and I think "Sonic Reducer" is sitting comfortably atop the list.

This gave me a pretty good idea for a thread. We've got the "Top (Whatever) Songs by Any Artist" thread. How about a "Top Songs in Any Genre" thread? We could make lists of the best Punk, Post-Punk, British Invasion, etc. songs. I think it would be pretty sweet.