I can't believe someone could be so harsh. Regardless of what angry fans posted on your site, there are a lot of Kings of Leon fans in the world. And to state "that the average KOL fan uses poor grammar and childish, sexual insults instead of rational, intelligent thought" is pretty crude. I consider myself a fan of the band, does that lump me in what all of these aforementioned fans?

Moreover, "average KOL fans" are also fans of other music, some of which, I bet you love as well. Here is an example, I remember you really liking the new Portishead album, as do I, but I also really like the new Kings of Leon album which you despise: does that make me some kind of a moron as your review and posts suggest?

quote:

Originally posted by Filmore Mescalito Holmes:
But let's take a step back for a second. I think the KOL's new album is a terribly average, overinflated piece of pop wank. Coincidently, I've been writing reviews for over five years now. Does that mean I think I'm more intelligent than everyone who listens to KOL? Hell, no. Some of those people are my closest friends, and a few of them are quite intelligent. My Geohazards prof is a huge fan and he's got his doctorate (and a job).However, in my capacity as an established music critic who has reviewed over a thousand albums of all shapes and sizes to date, I can comfortably say on the back of my historical knowledge and insight that comes to anyone who listens intensely to music all day every day for years on end - and with the help of years of writing experience and half of a BA English major - that the new KOL is a turd. That's my job. It's what all critics do, for better or worse. I also thought the new Venetian Snares was an 8/10. How is saying Venetian Snares is great not just as arrogant as saying the new KOL is crap?

No, I don't think you're a moron. FragileKidA. I also don't think you're the average KOL fan, who is more in line with the beer-swilling Motley Crue and Nickelback types that vote Republican. I give you more credit than that.

"pussy driven ambitions"

"the repetitious penis ode"

"there are only two ways it can be taken and one of them is the clap."

"Cock rock is still cock rock no matter how many hipsters are in the crowd."

"while Caleb squeaks about wanting to bone a random face in the crowd."

"if an ultraconservative governor of Alaska and vice-presidential nominee can’t teach her underage daughter to avoid the baby bullet"

"Their live-off-the-floor studio recordings have always brought to the table something intangibly vibrant (or throbbing, if you will)"


Yeah Filmore, your review wasn't crude at all... whatever you want to tell yourself.

And your sweeping generalization that "the average KOL fan, who is more in line with the beer-swilling Motley Crue and Nickelback types that vote Republican" is quit frankly extremely ignorant and an obvious blanket statement about Americans.

Considering you live in fucking Canada, I'd say you are in no position to stereotype Americans.
You are as obliviously disconnected from the average American Citizen as Palin is.

Considering you admit to making cultural slurs about the south as well, I'm not surprised with your opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
I wish I didn't have so much time to spend on this website, going back and forth on this topic and getting nowhere. Unfortunately, the economy is worse than awful and at the moment I can't find a job with my freshly earned Master's of Architecture degree. Hopefully when I do I don't have time to waste on this pointless charade.

You're obsessing, Dudeness. Get a job already.

quote:

Originally posted by Filmore Mescalito Holmes:
You're obsessing, Dudeness.

You asked for examples...

quote:

Originally posted by Filmore Mescalito Holmes:

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
I wish I didn't have so much time to spend on this website, going back and forth on this topic and getting nowhere. Unfortunately, the economy is worse than awful and at the moment I can't find a job with my freshly earned Master's of Architecture degree. Hopefully when I do I don't have time to waste on this pointless charade.

You're obsessing, Dudeness. Get a job already.

Hey believe me asshole, I would if I could. Unfortunately, people are getting laid off left an right from architecture firms right now... it's therefore impossible for them to hire someone.

Architecture firms can't design buildings if clients can't get financing if banks can't give credit. It's a vicious cycle and unfortunately I graduated at the wrong time... my bad. I apologize. The global financial crisis is my fault evidently.

I also apologize that the job I had lined up after I graduated fell through because the firm lost over a million dollars due to the housing crisis and had a developer go bankrupt while owing them $500,000.

I'll get a job as soon as things get better... and you'll probably be an asshole the entire time I'm looking.

Yeah, "baby bullet" is so crude. That's some r-rated sh!t right there. Good call. Nothing I said in any of those examples was any more crude than "your sex is on fire", so you've failed again to paint me in a corner.
Why don't you go for your doctorate?

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
Hey believe me asshole, I would if I could.
I'll get a job as soon as things get better... and you'll probably be an asshole the entire time I'm looking.

And I'm the crude one.

quote:

Originally posted by Filmore Mescalito Holmes:
Yeah, "baby bullet" is so crude. That's some r-rated sh!t right there. Good call. Nothing I said in any of those examples was any more crude than "your sex is on fire", so you've failed again to paint me in a corner.
Why don't you go for your doctorate?

Because I'm sick of school. I'm designing some theoretical projects on my own, getting my website up, doing some graphic design for a company in Colorado. I'm keeping busy. I come on metacritic when I need a break.

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
Hey believe me asshole, I would if I could.
I'll get a job as soon as things get better... and you'll probably be an asshole the entire time I'm looking.

And I'm the crude one.[/QUOTE]

That's the thing, I never claimed I wasn't crude. We can go around and around all day, neither of us are going to change each other's mind. I'm being harsh, you're being harsh. I'm being crude, you're being crude, the people commenting on your review are being crude. I think you are being hypocritical for being brash and having a problem with others being brash.

You seem to have no problem with making stereotypes of certain Americans from the safety of Canada, not to even mention you past digressions with slurs against the south (which you now admit were wrong). I don't even know what else to say. This is pointless.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: His Dudeness,

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
I think you are being hypocritical for being brash and having a problem with others being brash.

I disagree. I never said any member of KOL was fat and gay, which many of those posts did to me. That's crossing the crude line. Calling the band who wrote the "your sex is on fire" lyric "cock-rock" is being accurate, not crude for the sake of name calling. There's a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
You seem to have no problem with making stereotypes of certain Americans from the safety of Canada

The album is number 4 on the Canadian charts. I don't know what you're basing that on.
I brought up the southern slurs deal myself, and that was from a three year old review. That's a non-issue. Though, really, they were more redneck slurs, not area specific, so they were more class-based remarks and not stereotypes of certain Americans. Canada is full of rednecks (that's all Alberta is).
Plus, I wouldn't say Canada is safe from America. If your economy tanks, so does ours, no ifs ands or buts.

quote:

Originally posted by Filmore Mescalito Holmes:

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
I think you are being hypocritical for being brash and having a problem with others being brash.

I disagree. I never said any member of KOL was fat and gay, which many of those posts did to me. That's crossing the crude line. Calling the band who wrote the "your sex is on fire" lyric "cock-rock" is being accurate, not crude for the sake of name calling. There's a difference.

I didn't realize that there was a crude line and that "fat" and "gay" defined it. You seem to be defining your terms as you go, that's convenient. We can disagree with exactly how crude you were in your review, but I'd venture to say if you show that review to a random person on the street they'd call it (at least relatively) crude. That may be a vague definition, but crude in this context is very subjective. Agree to disagree.

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
You seem to have no problem with making stereotypes of certain Americans from the safety of Canada

The album is number 4 on the Canadian charts. I don't know what you're basing that on.

I'm basing it on this statement you made:
"the average KOL fan, who is more in line with the beer-swilling Motley Crue and Nickelback types that vote Republican."

That seems pretty stereotypical, especially considering you live in Canada and don't have direct contact (and no, the internet doesn't count as direct contact) with anyone who can legally vote republican. Therefore, making generalizations about A) the average Kings of Leon fan, and B) those who vote Republican, is completely unfounded because you have no accurate point of reference, not for any extended period of time anyway. I'm sure you visited the US, but that alone won't give you comprehensive portrayal of it's citizens. Remember, there are average Kings of Leon fans all over the country, in every class, in every urban area, suburban area, rural area, and all over the world (as you point out in your review).

Therefore, your opinions on both are based on stereotypes, nothing more. And considering you admit to making stereotypes against the south in the past, I don't think you've earned the right to the benefit of the doubt on these stereotypes.

I would like to thank you though, this "debate" is more interesting and less frustrating than the current one going on in American politics. I don't think either of us could possibly hope to get as negative, disrespectful, or as nasty as certain desperate political campaigns seem to be...

quote:

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
That seems pretty stereotypical, especially considering you live in Canada and don't have direct contact (and no, the internet doesn't count as direct contact) with anyone who can legally vote republican.

Actually, my girlfriend and her parents are both recent immigrants to Canada and will both be submitting absentee ballots. My GF is from Vegas and her mom was originally from Arizona. Granted, they're both voting Obama, but they can legally vote Republican. Therefore, since I have direct contact with these people on a daily basis, I have an extremely accurate point of reference for the US. I also own part of a summer cottage in Point Roberts, Washington, where my family used to spend every summer, all summer long, and we still frequently visit (it's ocean front property, nice view). But even if I didn't have all of these close ties to the US, we get more American TV here than we do Canadian. We get CNN. Hell, the VP nominee is from Alaska, which you'll note is farther away from America's main 48 states than Vancouver, where I live no more than an hour's drive from Bellingham. You should really investigate this Canada thing. We aren't Russia. We're right here next to you, and we're watching everything you do. Conversely, you already have us surrounded and you own most of our natural resources. You're the elephant and we're the bird on your back. We're in this together sink or swim whether we like it or not.

I love Motley Crue and Nickelback. Not so much Kings Of Leon though...

Where is Leon anyway, and how is it that they have some commie 'King sharing the throne' type system?

There's something rotten in Denmark....

http://current.com/items/89413664_canadian_critic_sucks
This is the most awesome thing I've ever seen. I never knew I had a drunk pornstar's dog's name.

Seriously, though, "Crawl" is a scathing rebut my butthole. It's a ramble of terrorist fear buzz. It's meaningless.

At the risk of sounding like a Filmore groupie (which I'm not, but money and licks may change my mind), I have to defend him from idiots who think they are clever and cleverer.

Firstly, it was pretty clear to me that Mr. Holmes was criticising the poor quality of political analysis on display by KOL and Keith, regardless of pro or con the US.

Secondly, the sex thing. Jesus. It wasn't that FMH thought there was too much sex in the words, it was that again, they were such fucking poor lyrics about sex.

At least this is how I see it, and I comment because I think Filmore and I agree that lyrically, politics and sex are two topics they Kings should stay away from.

And idiots with access to cameras and websites are still idiots.

While I realize that the review on Filmore's review was, at least on some level, what he was hoping for, (and by that I mean he wanted to touch a nerve and get some attention). I thought this critique of Filmore was pretty entertaining, and in my opinion, spot on. He brings up many of the same points I tried to bring up... regardless of whether you agree with them or not. I'm glad there's someone who sees Filmore's review the same way. Plus, as a benefit to Filmore this review will help get his name out there even further... any press is good press.

My favorite line: "Mr. Holmes uses his next thousand words complaining that the Kings of Leon sing about sex too much. What?! It's Rock and Roll. what do you want them to sing about, salads and hard candy?" That's pretty funny.

Just remember, not every band or song needs to (or should) have some deep meaning behind the music. Sometimes you just want mindless wailing and banging on a guitar... the Kings are good for what they are trying to accomplish: which admittedly is not much beyond having a good time, so what?

Thanks for pointing that video out Filmore...

The drunk pornstar's dog's name bit still cracks me up. I never really thought about how pretentious my name was before (it actually contains references to Frank Zappa, Hunter Thompson and Cheech & Chong respectively). The guy raises a couple decent points despite his own style. I still think "Crawl" is a meaningless patchwork of terrorist buzz words, and I wouldn't put Caleb past trying to impregnate a 17 year old just for kicks, but they are points for discussion.

Sex is a default for bands with no original ideas (and Montrose's "Rock Candy" did indeed rock). Sure, the name "rock & roll" may have been a euphemism for sex, but that was 60 years ago. I don't think it's too much to expect bands to evolve a little in 60 years. But the point in the review was that KOL has U2 ambitions and lyrics on par with The Darkness. If you want to be a cock-rock band, be a cock-rock band. You can't fake being meaningful, so embrace your cheeseball mullet beer-drinking ways and stop toeing the artistic line. In any case, like you said, press is press.

Now, if you want a sex album done right, get Lords Of Acid's Voodoo-U immediately. That is an honest record.

quote:

It's the number 5 album in the US charts today, right behind the Pussycat Dolls. I think that justifies the Nickelback comparison, aside from the fact the formulaic songwriting on Only By The Night is parallel.

Ah, but this raises the question, will Only By The Night sell six million copies, and be loved by America? No, because radio does not play them. Radio will never play them, at least not in any mainstream forum.

We also have to bring up the question, what is formulaic, according to your definition? Lyrics about sex, big, heavy riffs, U2 comparisons? But it's OK if, like Lords of Acid Voodoo-U, they present one of these aspects in a "honest" way? How is honesty displayed in that album as opposed to Kings of Leon?

quote:

Originally posted by ProfAmaretto:

quote:

It's the number 5 album in the US charts today, right behind the Pussycat Dolls. I think that justifies the Nickelback comparison, aside from the fact the formulaic songwriting on Only By The Night is parallel.

Ah, but this raises the question, will Only By The Night sell six million copies, and be loved by America? No, because radio does not play them. Radio will never play them, at least not in any mainstream forum.

As evidenced by the record's slide from 5 to 20 to 29 to 32 in four consecutive weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by ProfAmaretto:
We also have to bring up the question, what is formulaic, according to your definition? Lyrics about sex, big, heavy riffs, U2 comparisons? But it's OK if, like Lords of Acid Voodoo-U, they present one of these aspects in a "honest" way? How is honesty displayed in that album as opposed to Kings of Leon?

The new KOL is musically and lyrically derivative and as formulaic as a Nickelback album. At least Because Of The Times valued style over substance. As someone who has forced himself to listen to an entire Nickelback album, I can safely say Only By The Night has neither substance nor style. It's by the numbers and predictable down to its core.

If you listen to VooDoo-U, you'll hear a record that's incredibly musically unique and adventurous, and the lyrics are brutally frank and forthcoming (including songs about deflowering young boys and crabs). They could have cared less if the album sold or not. They had the integrity to make the album they wanted to make and were true to themselves, no matter how offensive the results were lyrically or aurally. OBTN, on the other hand, is a blatant attempt to scale the charts and sell a million records (a fact often noted among their fans, many of whom like the record anyway). Based on the thousands of records I've heard, there's nothing controversial or original about the new KOL. It's the definition of formulaic.

Alright then, now we're getting somewhere.

quote:

Based on the thousands of records I've heard, there's nothing controversial or original about the new KOL. It's the definition of formulaic.

So then, according to your definition of "formulaic," is every sort of music that's formulaic disagreeable? Or are there specific bands that are successful with their particular "formula?" If so, which bands?