--- start of rant ----

WoW,
I havent Played since I got married ~10 years, but, couldn't resist putting in my two cents. I just looked at the RS top 100 and lost my sh!t!

TWO THAT SHOULD NOT BE SO HIGH

Kurt Colbain - Fist time I saw him was at a Berkley party and EVERYONE in the room could'nt believe someone got on TV playing one open chord for an entire song(can't remember think it was C). This guy can NOT even be in the conversation!
Niel Youg - I learned to play by learning all his songs and solos, Love his music but if I can learn him in 6 months he does not belong on the top 100.

TWO THAT SHOULD BE HIGHER

Carlos Montoyoa/Andrea Segovia(AKA the Master) - NOT ON THE LIST!!! why? I realise classical/flaminco isn't popular but these are considered the graetest of all time in thier fields, in fields that have been around for hundreds of years(longer if you include the Lute).

Franf Zappa - WOW in the 40's! I can name one classical composer/Jazz/Doo-Wop/Metal/Psycadelic/dada/Country/Blues/Funk/Indusrtial/Punk guitarist and that is FZ. His body of work >60 full compositions in ALL fields of musical disiplines deserves to be WAY HIGHER. If the criteria is truly the greatest guitarists(technical and influential) and not the most popular, well, obviously this is'nt the case.

--- end of rant ---

back in the seventies I attended a Carlos Montoya concert. THe lights came on and Mr. Montyoya come onto the stage where there was a simple wooden chair at the front of the stage. For the next two hours this man kicked ass. I kept looking to the curtains in the hope that I would see where the other guitarists were hiding. His fingers were a blur and I am sure he had no idea where he was other than in music heaven. I will never forget it. It was mindboggling and this on one acoustic guitar.
!!!!
bboney1, thanks for the memory. It was astounding to listen to the man and to watch him.

Excellent rant Bboney. I haven't read the RS list myself.

I think when it comes to Neil Young, he's overrated with his electric soloing (Cinnamon Girl solo has 1 note and is considered to be one of the great solos *gag*), but he's underrated when it comes to his acoustic guitar work. Obviously Harvest Moon comes to mind, but look at the Needle and the Damage Done, Old Man, Sugar Mountain, etc., he does a great job and is very inventive.

Personally, I don't know Zappa too well at all, so I'm no expert. I had a friend who was a music major at university though who's "best professor ever" claimed "in 200 years, Frank Zappa will be mentioned in the same breath as Motzart and Bach (sp?) as one of the all time great composers."

anyone who doubts the greatness of neil young as a guitarist just needs to listen to "Cortez the Killer" to hear how amazing he can be

ryanryanryan102:

I thought I was clear(if not I appoligise), Neil Young is great, great as a songwriter and for getting that nasty sound from an inanimate object. I spent a considerable amout of time studying his technique, he's great.

--- BUT ---

If one is to create a list of the greatest (albeit subjective) guitarists. I would think the criteria would be FIRST and foremost innovation, something like Lightning Hopkins (not on the list) for using that percussive technique on the acoustic or Stanley Jordan/Eddie Van for popularizing the tap technique or Richie Blackmore for introducing modular soloing to popular music .... Second, for virtuosity fill in your own examples (Hendrix would be a good one). ... Lastly and possibly a distant third would be melodity, if it doesn't sound good then it probably isn't (Steve Vai comes to mind, and personal opinion John McLaughlin please don't flame me for that) <caveat> both were absoltely great when someone else was writing for them.

I was in no way saying that I didn't love Neil (I do), it's just that there should be a more subjective way of creating a best guitarist list than just listing who you like the best. I like what Greg Ginn, Angus Young and Dave Davies did and still do but as the the greatest ... probably not.

Il Mago:
"Frank Zappa will be mentioned in the same breath as Motzart and Bach (sp?) as one of the all time great composers."
another example: The Berkley School of Music has one permenant rock guitarist class, that's Frank.(I'd argue against calling him rock )

sorry for the tyyyyypos and gr'mmar I'm drunk

I haven't seen too many jazz guitarists mentioned. I'm a big fan of many guitarists, but my all time favorite is a jazz guitarist Grant Green. Anyone else a fan of Grant Green?

quote:

Originally posted by johnboy:
The Duncan black guy that slags off Noel gallagher's playing - how many hit songs have you written anyway?. If Noel is so crap then you write Live Forever, Slide Away or any of his classics. Yes Noels theory might seems a bit weak but have you ever thought that he has an innate, intuative ability hence the sheer number of songs he's wrote. Moreover about Neil Young fuck technique watch the Rust Never Sleeps dvd, he has a beautiful fucked-up emotional ability that goes beyond technique. Great players shall always put the song above the technique listen to Johnny Marr, Bernard Butler, John Squire (first roses album), Pete Towsend or even Steve Jones it should always be about the song and the emotion the guitar can give it. A good example of a great yet technical player would be John Frusciante yet even he got better when he reduced his style around Califonication, also did you know his favourite gutarist is Bernard Sumner hardly a technician. Yet again it's all about opinion I understand but you can bet in 30 years Neil Young shall be remembered will via or any of these technical guys?

I never got round to replying to this.

My issue was never about Noel Gallagher's song writing, it was his guitar playing. On the subject of 'technical vs feel', I already documented my respect for several musicians who reject the theory aspect, including Neil Young. I happen to think that Johnny Marr is a great player.

On the subject of how many classic songs Mr Gallagher has written - I'm aware of many songs he has 're-written' - much of his back catalogue has been taken from the Beatles, Pink Floyd and Slade (amongst others). If you look at the writing credits on Oasis albums there are many big names including John Lennon. It's THAT blatant.

Noel doesn't have any technique, feel, attitude OR originality as a guitarist. He is completely bland in all respects. Hence - he is overrated.

You ask if any of the 'technical players' will be remembered in 30 years - Hendrix already is and I don't think anyone's going to forget Frank Zappa in a hurry.

My point is, there's a very sniffy attitude towards technical players that seems quite jealous in it's motivation. I like both the 'emotional' guitarist and the 'technical' guitarist. Unfortunately, Noel does neither of these things particularly well.

quote:

Originally posted by Ladoo:
I haven't seen too many jazz guitarists mentioned. I'm a big fan of many guitarists, but my all time favorite is a jazz guitarist Grant Green. Anyone else a fan of Grant Green?

Bill Frisell and Django Rheinhardt. Great stuff.

The most overrated Rock Guitarist of All-Time, hands down, has to be Jimi Hendrix. If this Hack did not die when he did people would not even know who he was. His death made him a legend, because if he did not die he would be no more then a footnote in Rock history. His playing ability was limited and the God-Awful noise that came out of his guitar was just painful to listen to. His lack of style and originality, because he ripped off Pete Townshend and many others before him, he was just pathetic.

EVH...i may be talking out my ass. Lots of people love him. But just not my style, dig?

quote:

Originally posted by Riannasdad:
The most overrated Rock Guitarist of All-Time, hands down, has to be Jimi Hendrix. If this Hack did not die when he did people would not even know who he was. His death made him a legend, because if he did not die he would be no more then a footnote in Rock history. His playing ability was limited and the God-Awful noise that came out of his guitar was just painful to listen to. His lack of style and originality, because he ripped off Pete Townshend and many others before him, he was just pathetic.

Seems we have a Cat Stevens fan on our hands.

jimi hendrix is a good guitar player that deserves to be in the top ten but not the best (according to Rolling Stones). hes certainly not better than eric clapton, jimmy page, or duane allman.

quote:

Originally posted by rockDude16:
jimi hendrix is a good guitar player that deserves to be in the top ten but not the best (according to Rolling Stones). hes certainly not better than eric clapton, jimmy page, or duane allman.

What Hendrix had over every other rock guitarist was an appreciation of the sonic potential of the electric guitar. This he proceeded to exploit. Judged by this criterion, Jeff Beck is probably #2 and Page #3. In comparison, Clapton and Allman are pretty conventional. Good, though.

quote:

Originally posted by Riannasdad:
The most overrated Rock Guitarist of All-Time, hands down, has to be Jimi Hendrix. If this Hack did not die when he did people would not even know who he was. His death made him a legend, because if he did not die he would be no more then a footnote in Rock history. His playing ability was limited and the God-Awful noise that came out of his guitar was just painful to listen to. His lack of style and originality, because he ripped off Pete Townshend and many others before him, he was just pathetic.

C'mon guys, get OUTSIDE the box.

Being a great guitarist is all about doing something different, have your own style and connecting with the song or piece, regarding emotion or whatever. For this reason Cobain was a great guitarist. He had as somebody once said an "idiot savant" style. He changed music. As did Edge, who is easily one of the greatest guitarists of all time. Being a great guitarist isn't all about 10 minute solos, which I'm sure Edge could do without the slightest problem. Edge has a unique, percussive style of playing. U2 are not Van Halen. Neil Young, also, is an all-time great. He channels the emotion of his song through the guitar, even if he's not as technically brilliant as Henrix (Zeus) or Clapton (God) or Django.

The most overrated is easily Noel Gallagher. Ugh. And you can't use the Neil Young argument with Noel. Young had a enough technical ability to begin with. While I think the intro to Some Might Say is good, it's not enough... He's just not that good. He's not completely CRAP. He's overrated.

Some of my favourites are Mark Knopfler, Peter Green and Jack White (who gets a lot of flak - so all you solo-heads can listen to Ball and Biscuit. He changed, and still is changing music.)

Roy Buchanan. He would record a dozen songs for an album and there would be one good one, maybe a passable one and then a bunch of crap. What a waste of a career.

btw, Hendrix, if he were alive, would blow away any guitar player today. He ate Clapton for lunch.

quote:

Originally posted by Riannasdad:
The most overrated Rock Guitarist of All-Time, hands down, has to be Jimi Hendrix. If this Hack did not die when he did people would not even know who he was. His death made him a legend, because if he did not die he would be no more then a footnote in Rock history. His playing ability was limited and the God-Awful noise that came out of his guitar was just painful to listen to. His lack of style and originality, because he ripped off Pete Townshend and many others before him, he was just pathetic.

Your post gives evidence that you really don't understand what Jimi did and why he was so great. Pete Townshend and Jimi had COMPLETELY different styles and even Pete would attest that Jimi was the greatest. Eric Clapton, Mike Bloomfield, The Beatles and many others were all in awe of him. I think that Jimi is actually under-rated as guitarist! Most people just listen to his blazing solos and the plethora of sounds that he got out of the guitar, but I think that he was actually the greatest rhythm guitarist of all time. Just listen to his accompaniments on songs like "Angel" or "Little Wing" or "May This Be Love" or "Are You Experienced" and, if you listen closely, you will get a new appreciation for Jimi's playing.

The only way to truly appreciate Jimi's style is through live recordings.

I would amend that to live performances on video: Monterey Pop, Woodstock, Rainbrow Bridge, etc.

You guys realize that you are responding to a post that is nearly a year old from someone who made two insignificant contributions to to MC, right?

But yeah, that guy was confused.