Alright..who wants to humor me and engage in a little discussion? I hope I'm not the only person who thinks NIN is worth talking about, at least once in a while....
Probably my favorite album is The Downward Spiral, followed by With Teeth, Broken, And All That Could Have Been, The Fragile, and Pretty Hate Machine. I know some people think TR isn't "relevant" anymore, but I disagree...he's one of the most talented musicians working today, but a lot of people continue to write him off (for reasons unbeknownst to me).
I always encourage people who dislike the music to attend a live show...at least respect that TR still puts on one of the best live performances in music. The energy is amazing, and the crowd is transfixed from beginning to end. I've seen tons of concerts, and Radiohead is the only show, in my mind, that has surpassed NIN.
It took me a long time to get into NIN. Whiney vocals tend to turn me off, and that was always the biggest hurdle to get over personally. I always respected Trent's ability, but until With Teeth I didn't really care for any of the albums much. On that album he finally gained some real confidence and dropped the self loathing from the music, if not the lyrics. I thought With Teeth was one of the best releases of last year, and it enabled me to go backwards into the NIN catalogue with a more open mind, which revealed a lot of enjoyable songs to me! He is one of the favourite artists of my girlfriend and one of my good friends loves him too, both have all the singles and rarities, and are truly dedicated fans.
"If it were beneficial, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect." -Jesus, from the Gospel Of Thomas
The greatest thing trent reznor did was combine good pop sensibility with industrial music, and bring that genre of music to its logical end. NIN's music is certainly enjoyable, but I find that its much easier to see through reznor's act as I get a littler older. He really does cater a lot to adolescent angst and makes no apologies about it. Often I feel like his songs are written so it is more marketable to his target audience (white suburban teenagers angry at his parents/girlfriend or whatever). I find that to be a turn off as I expect a little more sincerity and depth to what I listen to.
Unlike the chicken and the egg question, the music definitely came before the market. Isn't it possible that NIN caters to its own tastes and desires and this simply found a certain audience? I would submit that it is not only possible, but highly probable. This is like saying that Jimmy Buffett makes music that caters to parrotheads and therefore loses credibility. Anyone who says that has never heard "Makin' Music For Money" (1974).
Posts: 1206 | Location: Hunting in the Korengal | Registered: 04 January 2006
Unlike the chicken and the egg question, the music definitely came before the market. Isn't it possible that NIN caters to its own tastes and desires and this simply found a certain audience?
Exactly...
I don't think it's an act, I think it's just his personality...he's been pretty open with his fans about his depression and alcoholism...there are a lot of musicians Trent's age & older that are just as angst-ridden...the difference lies with who listens to the music.
Even if that is the case, that Trent is catering to his own artistic needs, I don't feel that he expresses it in a very interesting or convincing manner. If you're a thrity something artist who's sold millions of albums but still writes lyrics that reek of the same old teenage angst that you popularized ten years ago, then I seriously doubt the credibility of anyone who says Trent Reznor is "deep".
It's not so much that I have a problem with Trent, as I enjoy listening to NIN and other bands like New Order and the Cure who take up the same kind of formula. I just have a problem with people who says that those kinds of bands express "sincere" emotions or that they're "deep" or some bullshit like that. The bottom line is that they are a pop band at heart and cater to a certain marketable demographic.
I enjoy listening to NIN and other bands like New Order and the Cure who take up the same kind of formula. I just have a problem with people who says that those kinds of bands express "sincere" emotions or that they're "deep" or some bullshit like that. The bottom line is that they are a pop band at heart and cater to a certain marketable demographic.
So what bands do express sincere emotions then, in your opinion? And what bands don't cater to a marketable demographic? Citing any indie band isn't a legitimate answer...go to any indie show and 90% of the audience is wearing converse, tight pants, and an old t-shirt...or the latest thing from Urban Outfitters. Most people are a part of some subculture, whether they want to acknowledge it or not. The shitty part is, marketing has found away to worm itself into smaller and smaller demographics, so you can't escape the deliberate marketing behind the music.
You are exactly right. I didn't say that it is wrong for bands to market to a demographic, I'm just saying that most NIN fans don't recognize this. They seem to be under the impression that Trent has invented some new form of expression. They refuse to believe that their method of expression is not that far from said bands like alice cooper, the cure , marylin manson, slipknot, etc. etc.
An example of someone who I'd consider to express said "deep" emotions would be Bob Dylan. I know its an easy pick but he illustrates what Trent Reznor doesn't have and its an unique voice. Its a combination of lyrical and vocal originality combined with a sense of wit and understanding.
Now a lot of bands I like have neither of those qualities, but I accept that and enjoy it for what it is. You should too, but I will argue against it if you claim that NIN is more than just good.
They seem to be under the impression that Trent has invented some new form of expression. They refuse to believe that their method of expression is not that far from said bands like alice cooper, the cure , marylin manson, slipknot, etc. etc.
I fail to see the point here. "They" are well within "their" rights to assume or believe what "they" want. Your willingness to argue this point beyond what has already been said is futile and Typewriter made her point smartly. I don't like NIN but I would never suggest that they aren't more than just good. Is there really a need to piss on other people's parade when you gain nothing beyond pushing an opinion down someone's throat?
Posts: 1206 | Location: Hunting in the Korengal | Registered: 04 January 2006
Is there really a need to piss on other people's parade when you gain nothing beyond pushing an opinion down someone's throat?
Yes, when your roommate plays them constantly. Along with the Dave Matthews Band, Audioslave, and the Counting Crows. But yea you're right otherwise, I shouldn't be so pissy.
Originally posted by Smenkharon: It took me a long time to get into NIN. Whiney vocals tend to turn me off, and that was always the biggest hurdle to get over personally. I always respected Trent's ability, but until With Teeth I didn't really care for any of the albums much. On that album he finally gained some real confidence and dropped the self loathing from the music, if not the lyrics. I thought With Teeth was one of the best releases of last year, and it enabled me to go backwards into the NIN catalogue with a more open mind, which revealed a lot of enjoyable songs to me!
The same thing happened to me this year when I picked up a used copy of With Teeth on a whim after someone on an internet forum recommended it highly. I was never into Nine Inch Nails and often the sheer amount of profanity and attention-mongering in videos and lyrics would drive me away from videos and radio singles. With "Closer" for example, I don't think I could ever get past the... *hem*... lyrics. But now that I con listen to it with fresh ears I can see past the explicit stuff and enjoy it as a song. With Teeth was actually the CD that got me hooked on this bandartist, and so far I have picked up every remix and studio album except Pretty Hate Machine. I am genuinely looking forward to a new Nine Inch Nails album in 2007 (as well as the live Beside You In Time coming out next year as well ).
I like Trent. Last year I ended up retracting my initial assessment of With Teeth after I let my guard down and realized some of the tracks were actually pretty goddamn good. The lyrics, still, are atrocious. That's more important to me now than it was in the 90s, when I considered myself a hardcore Nine Inch Nails fan; now I just can't ignore lines like "Don't you fucking know what you are?" and, "Why do you get all the love in the world?"
I still think The Fragile is much better than the press gave it credit—the Pitchfork review by Brent DiCri..ci...cen...zo is the high (low?) watermark for pathetic indie cool—and I'll always have a soft spot for The Downward Spiral and Pretty Hate Machine.
But the lyrics keep me from enjoying NIN on anything more than a nostalgic level. I do look forward to his next release, however, sometime in 2010.
Posts: 1652 | Location: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: 15 September 2004
I agree with that assessment m.l. I think when Reznor's on, he's creating a style of music that's pretty unique. But, his lyrics usually sound like they were written by a 14-year-old who's pissed off at everything. Maybe that's Reznor's target audience, but it's a little hard to buy that schtick from a guy who's in his 40s and has sold millions of records.
----- We were wasps with new wings, now we're bugs in the jar.
Posts: 5474 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
With regards to NIN, in theory, I can see why people like them, a good combination of what makes industrial metal great combined with the great hooks of pop. In practice, I find that the NIN is far too repetitive for my liking, particularly in newer releases. Case in point, "The hand that feeds" and "only."
Posts: 3808 | Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha | Registered: 18 October 2004
I'm glad this thread got resurrected...I got frustrated after the Bob Dylan post. If the argument is Trent's lyrics are insincere simply because of the number of records he's sold...following that logic, Dylan's lyrics are insincere too...perhaps even more so because he's outsold Trent by an ungodly amount.
I understand how some people can become annoyed by the lyrics, and I'll admit the repetition is a bit much here and there. I don't listen to NIN every day, and I'm not an obsessed fan. I'm just saying give respect where respect is due.
The reason why I spring to Trent's defense, though, is because emotion doesn't always have to be profound. Often times, it isn't at all...you just feel pissed or depressed. I think that's what Trent is trying to express...take away all the bullshit and you're left with raw emotion. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the circumstances were...the feelings are still inside you. Profundity shouldn't be the only criterion to which music is held...it bothers me when an individual chooses to narrow their judgement of music in that manner.
quote:
I am genuinely looking forward to a new Nine Inch Nails album in 2007 (as well as the live Beside You In Time coming out next year as well ). Anyone else looking forward to new NIN releases?
I want to see if I can spot myself in the DVD...and yes, I'm anxious to hear the new album...also intrigued because Trent usually takes a long hiatus between albums.
).
(Unless of course I've accidently linked to the wrong video, which is entirely possible. 
)
