I have no interest in UFOs. I believe that given the immensity of the universe, there almost has to be sentient life somewhere other than our tiny, insignificant rock tucked in the corner of a minor galaxy. Whether the life is more or less intelligent that us is interesting, to me, but ultimately immaterial.

However, what UFOs are not, resolutely, are a religious issue!

Let's talk about 'em here.

They could become a religious issue(for some) if they turn out to be real, which I think they are. By they, I mean extra-terrestrial life, because they may not necessarily have flying objects.

I want to believe!

I see your point, but I don't think that appearance of extraterrestrial life would have any impact on the argument for or against the existence of a supernatural being. It would neither prove nor disprove anything.

Well, guess I'll just copy & paste our little discussion here. Minus the religious tone, of course !

quote:

Originally posted by Echolocating:
If I take a bucket of water and twirl it around horizontally, none of the water drops out. When a racecar driver accelerates, a gravitational force pushes against him. These two methods work without complex science. I’m sure that scientists have many engineered solutions to creating gravity for space travel, but honestly, we’re in no hurry to get to Mars just yet so I don’t think it’s a priority right now for NASA.

I know exactly what you're saying, BUT these things you speak of are VERY expensive to duplicate for space travel. NASA doesn't really look the way it did in "Armageddon". They don't have the funding & probably never will. As for aliens having it, it could be possible, but I still don't think they would travel for many years just to observe.

quote:

The question that sparked this discussion (SDF’s UFO inquiry) was not about aliens on other planets, but if aliens have visited our planet (UFOs). The aliens we’re talking about have obviously conquered space travel so it’s very safe to assume that they are technologically superior. I’m sure there are many other planets with intelligent life more primitive than us, but that wasn’t the original question.

Actually, the question was, "what do y'all think about UFOs?" I THINK space travel of that magnitude hasn't been achieved. So, therefore, no, I don't believe anyone has seen a REAL UFO. Sure, it's possible in theory, but so are lots of things. If we mastered the speed of light, space travel wouldn't be all that impossible. However, based on Einstein's relativity theory, as an object approaches the speed of light, it's physical dimensions must change such that both its mass and its length in the direction of travel approach infinity. Actually achieving light speed would also mean achieving infinite length and mass. This is NOT possible.

quote:

We’ve cloned sheep. We torture animals everyday in the name of science and industry.

But, earlier you said, "The best scientific study of animals is to observe without disturbing the environment." I'm sure that they have their own animals to pick apart & study. Are you saying this is what humanity would do if we mastered space travel? We'd find life & then, under the radar, kidnap individuals to test & probe? I'm sure we could learn more if we let our presence known. There would probably be volunteers for study! Especially, if aliens ever came here. I'd expect the same reaction the people had in "Independence Day". Lot's of morons on top of buildings with signs saying, "TAKE ME!!!"

quote:

Why do we construct sophisticated, expensive vehicles to take us down to the depths of the ocean to study new life forms? What’s the point of that?

First off, it doesn't take years to get down there. Second, we only have to create vehicles that can sustain large amounts of pressure. The point is to study deep sea life, these aren't particularly intelligent crearures & if we attempted to bring them up, they'd explode. So we MUST go to them & study them there.

quote:

You also assume that they go back home and that it takes 25 years to do so… and that 25 years is a huge amount of time to these beings.

So, now they can travel FASTER than the speed of light & they don't age like we do. I dunno. For once, I am in the same mindset as most scientists. Everytime someone claims they've seen a UFO, there is a scientist to explain it away. Most scientists believe in the POSSIBILITY of otherworldly life, but highly doubt it has visited this planet. 25 years is the shortest distance to the nearest solar system, I'm only assuming they would come from that one. They could be coming from even further than that, which would make the number of years even larger & make a trip to only OBSERVE really pointless. This would be the same as someone scaling Mount Everest & as soon as the top is visible, they'd turn around.

quote:

Who knows? I obviously don’t. The question is… has intelligent alien life visited our planet? I say yes, you say no. Why do you say no? Because you feel you know enough about the science of space travel and the intentions of alien civilizations to determine that it’s improbable. Do you really feel this way?

Pretty much, I guess. I mean I don't sit around trying to disprove EVERYTHING about space travel, but seeing how far we've come & learning how difficult space travel is, & how far away the NEAREST Solar System is, it just seems improbable. To go through ALL the trouble of arriving in an entirely different Solar System only to study from afar, seems like a waste of funding. I don't think ANY government would approve such an expensive endevour, strictly for sightseeing.

I should, at least, tell you that I would love the idea of aliens visiting us, this is why I studied this subject for many years & how I came to my conclusions. With each new discovery, I became less & less sure that aliens have actually visited this planet.

I found Close Encounters of the Third Kind to be a deeply spiritual film, especially the grand finale.

2001 doesn't really deal with UFOs but it certainly deals with extraterrestrials/gods visiting our planet and making us evolve.

I realize that these are just books/movies but they show some connection between "UFOs" and "Religion".

I find a 1962 Chateau d'Yquem to be a spiritual experience, too. But you don't see me putting it in the religion thread!

I guess this is a question we should pose to SDF. He was the one who, initially, brung it up.

The problem I have is that so many people make blatant fake movies about UFOs. It's like crying "Wolf". If people call it out, I won't believe it until or unless evidence comes out for its existence.

I don't tend to believe any of 'em, but my mention of the two earlier movies was my way to say that I believe in the power of film, and those two movies do connect UFOs and what some people call religion, at least to me. I'm shutting down now because Alien Autopsy XXIV is obviously a load.

Oh yes, film can be powerful, unless someone's filming a "UFO" and it wobbles when the camera wobbles. An F for effort.

I'll get back to you guys tomorrow about the UFO-religion connection. I just can't get away from this Golden State/Utah game long enough to compile my thoughts.

To the stone age tribes of New Guinea, those World War 2 planes flying overhead suggested the gods had returned, to either punish or reward the people of the forest.

We, 21st century Homo Scientus, know better, don't we?

Oh, sorry, I forgot....man is a credulous animal....God, Allah, Krishna...was the burning bush a UFO on fire..?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishmaels coffin:
was the burning bush a UFO on fire..?

Well, my mom believes that when people have claimed they've seen aliens, they've actually seen demons. Such is the mind of my mother, I love her to death, but she's veeeeerrrry quick to say, "SATANIC!" I find it funny because she can't watch "The Lord of the Rings" because the Orcs look demonic, but when she watched "The Descent", the cave dwellers were stupid because they don't really exist. Of course, I came at her with, "Uh, mom? Orcs aren't real, either." Such is her mindset. We've locked horns several times over matters such as these. You shoulda seen the look on her face when I told her I was playing Dungeons & Dragons.
Gas to get to her house: $5
Gallon of milk (because she forgot to pick some up): $3
Look on her face when I told her I was playing this most demonic of games: PRICELESS


*I should note that I don't find it to be demonic at all. It's actually pretty darn nerdy . I was a stone giant named Tom Bombadil (mostly to get on the Dungeon Master's nerves. He wanted me to pick a fantasy name & 'The Lord of the Rings' is fantasy ) & I was somehow defeated by a mud monster! A MUD MONSTER!!!!! What the flub?! How does mud defeat stone? After I was killed I went back to my room (I was playing with my roommate & some friends) & popped in my VHS tape with 'Homer Goes to College', turned the sound all the way up & kept replaying the lines:
Homer:"We played Dungeon & Dragons for 3 hours! And then I was slain by an elf."
Bart:"Just listen to yourself, Dad! You're hangin' with nerds!"

Haha, Ish. A better question: Is a UFO the burning bush returning?

You know, I kinda figured that if this topic got its own thread, the discussion would die. Where'd ya go, Echolocating? Did I win ?!



How's that for taunting your opponent?

My reply is posted on the religion thread (page 54). No offense to Kendo, but I feel it is valid within that thread. I don't intend to discourage any further UFO discussions here for whoever prefers it.

quote:

Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
Where'd ya go, Echolocating? Did I win ?!

I’ll post my thoughts when I have some free time. Don’t you worry; I’ll have some indisputable logic soon enough. I’ll make you “believe”, Monkey_Boy. ;-)

Oh, and regarding the burning bush… I watched a show a while ago where they identified a plant growing in the desert that produces unique oil. This oil is, of course, flammable. The interesting thing about this plant is that its so saturated by the oil that it doesn’t burn down like a normal bush would. The oil continues to fuel the fire for quite a long period of time, leaving the plant intact.

That's really interesting, Echo.
So are there burning bushes everywhere?

quote:

Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:

*I was a stone giant named Tom Bombadil

When I played (a very long time ago), I was a Gnome named BJ Barlow My Man. I still have the character and dude is practically immortal. Did I mention it was a long time ago?

So do this mean we can now burn Bush?

Gore & Bush...sex and violence...Best. Election. Ever.