Just saw this tonight. Was so funny and so fun!

The cast was great (Robert Downey, Jr....yay!), the performances were really hilarious, the story was so fun and unique, the action was exciting. Even T.C. showed us that he's not always taking himself so seriously!

Actually FUNNY comedies seem hard to come by. Great job! Fun, funny movie.

I saw this movie last night and I'm glad I did! This movie could be the funniest thing i've seen this year!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DARK OMEN969,

Tropic Thunder is likely to make my top ten list this year (2008).

i loved this movie i think it was the funniest move of the year

hahahah that movie was hilarious!

I thought it was terrible. Clearly shows that Ben Still has "lost it" like all great comedians do in theri mid 40's. It had a few funny parts but too many long stretched of jokes that just fall flat.

Note: You know a comedy isnt funny when it gets good reviews.

Look at the reviews of Anchorman, Dumb and Dumber, Zoolander and compare them with The ROyal Tenenbaums.

quote:

Maynard James Keenan Slacker First Class
Posted 05 December 2008 04:48 AM

I thought it was terrible. Clearly shows that Ben Still has "lost it" like all great comedians do in theri mid 40's. It had a few funny parts but too many long stretched of jokes that just fall flat.

Note: You know a comedy isnt funny when it gets good reviews.

Look at the reviews of Anchorman, Dumb and Dumber, Zoolander and compare them with The ROyal Tenenbaums.

Nope

This was a risky movie to make and it made fun of some important political images. Nevertheless, there was intelligent wit, the actors appeared to be having fun with the movie, and there was more of the comedy-live action going on here than the traditionally dumb comedy, pratfalls. Too many comedies are dull, safe, plain humor that avoid the really nervy and edgy tones of hard core comedy. I laughed a lot and definitely ranks as my top two comedies of the year.

Your argument that a comedy isn't good when it gets good reviews is suspect because it suggests a rebellious, anti-filmography tendency. It would be helpful to describe what base your judgment of what is good comedy. Just because film critics don't agree with your selection of good comedy doesn't mean that somehow they don't know what they're talking about. While I don't follow film critics, reviews slavishly and oftentimes I don't agree with a number of them, I don't necessarily assume that the movie is bad because it gets good movie reviews either. Your absolute black and white thinking on this matter can easily get you in trouble.

Your first paragraph was a joke because none of that means it was a funny movie. Like I said earlier it may have been ambitous for a comedy but its execution was poor.

The actors in it didnt make their characters very believable. Look at Stillers earlier work like Zoolander. Much better done. A joke every 20 seconds and they almost never fell flat. Pure brilliance.

quote:

Keenan Slacker First Class
Posted 05 December 2008 05:24 PM

Your first paragraph was a joke because none of that means it was a funny movie. Like I said earlier it may have been ambitous for a comedy but its execution was poor.

The actors in it didnt make their characters very believable. Look at Stillers earlier work like Zoolander. Much better done. A joke every 20 seconds and they almost never fell flat. Pure brilliance.

You must have a totally different world view of comedy than most people if you believe that it isn't funny when as I mentioned in my first paragraph that:

(1) it made fun of some important political images,

(2) there was intelligent wit,

(3) the actors appeared to be having fun with the movie,

(4) there was more of the comedy-live action

(5) I laughed a lot.

So I must gather from your comment then that a funny movie for you is a movie where you don't laugh a lot, that you don't rate comedy-live action (like stand up comedy) as funny, that it is dumb (not intelligent wit), that the actors on the movie must be seen as seriously acting and having a terrible time on screen, and of course can't address important political issues. Sounds like what you consider a funny, comedic movie would be something I'd rather not experience.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tabuno,

1) Yeah, like that has ANYTHING to do with being funny. No wait. It doesnt.

2) Where was there intelligent wit? You said it was there and I didnt see any. I think this statement says more about your intelligence and expectations than anything else.

3) Once again you should care whether or not the actors were having fun. You should care about how funny it was.

4) Why do you keep brining stuff up that has nothing to do with being funny

5) Refere to the second statment in number 2

quote:

Originally posted by Maynard James Keenan:
Note: You know a comedy isnt funny when it gets good reviews.

Look at the reviews of Anchorman, Dumb and Dumber, Zoolander and compare them with The ROyal Tenenbaums.

So you didn't think Knocked up or Borat was funny?

Note: The Royal Tenebaums is hilarious and a far more satisfying film than any which you mentioned.

The Royal Tennenbaums is awesome, but I agree with MJK that Tropic Thunder is crap.

It was in no way a "smart" comedy, and aside from a small handful of scenes, it wasn't that funny. Easily the most disappointing film I've seen this year, and if not for the presence of Robert Downey Jr., I'd give it a solid F. I was totally baffled as to what critics saw in this hunk of crap.

Borat and Knocked Up movies are exceptions to the rule. How many awesome Will Ferrell, Adam Sandler, Jim Carrey etc movies do critics rip that are loved by all 16 - 25 year olds?

Tropic Thunder was garbage. Note to every director who is going to do a comedy...

Budgets mean NOTHING.

quote:

Maynard James Keenan Participant
Posted 06 December 2008 04:12 PM

1) Yeah, like that has ANYTHING to do with being funny. No wait. It doesnt.

2) Where was there intelligent wit? You said it was there and I didnt see any. I think this statement says more about your intelligence and expectations than anything else.

3) Once again you should care whether or not the actors were having fun. You should care about how funny it was.

4) Why do you keep brining stuff up that has nothing to do with being funny

5) Refere to the second statment in number 2

Ah... Every so often I end up with somebody who has something to attempt to say without saying much. It's like "blue is blue" and "red is red." There not much to talk about. However, I shall attempt to review again in more direct terms the nature of my comments.

1. Political commentary has had a rich history in comedy and has a rightful place to be a source of important, revealing, entertaining material to discuss. Tropic Thunder (2008) can be interpreted as a political commentary on the current American military conflicts around the world and the approach is with humor. Sometimes, it's much more effective to use humor and comedy to talk about sensitive and heated political issues - to wit the recent Presidential campaign and the late night talk shows. Personally again I restate that political satire has an important, definite role in American theater today and perhaps much more so than people realize. Dr. Strangelove (1964) is probably one of the most well-known satiric political commentaries of its time. Again, I wonder about your range of appreciation of comedy, especially if you begin to exclude political satire. Are there any other areas of film experience do you avoid watching?

2. In order to respond at an intelligent level, I'm going to have to watch this movie again. So you'll have to wait a bit so I can demonstrate that I have some brain cells that operate above the level of an amoeba (well ok, I had to look up the spelling for "amoeba").

3. I don't know if you know much about movies, but the sense of how actors feel about their movies and how they get along on the set with each other, can make a difference to a movie. I'm not saying this is always the case. Harrison Ford apparently had huge problems on the set of Blade Runner (1982) and it didn't seem to negatively impact the movie. Yet, in part in response to item 4. about live action, there is an exciting energy that exists in live action comedy, even a great risk of bombing and when one can get a number of talented actors, like a jam session in music, the result can be wonderful. So when I say that the actors in this movie had fun, I'm referring to the potential synergistic energy that can create something larger than its parts which I believe occurred on this set and made the comedy even better.

4. Live action comedy. I recently saw Jaime Kennedy live on stage and I'll tell you, the laughter decibel level was off the charts to anything I've experienced in a movie theater. I wonder how sheltered a life you've had if you are going to so easily dismiss the role of live action comedy as a relevant source of comedy in theatrical films. Personally, I feel that humor in any of its forms, Shakespeare's plays, live radio with Garrison Kellor, and live comedy all have a role to play in entertainment arts and can each benefit for each other. Your narrow view of comedy (if adopted by too many others) could likely inhibit and hurt the potential for true comedy to expand and thrive.

5. I guess that you must not laugh at funny movies if one of your criterion for what's funny is desparaging anybody that laughs at a movie as not being a valuable indicator of whether or not a movie is funny. You appeaqr to have a much different way of experiencing comedy than anybody I know.

You are a crazy nerd who just described yourself.

1) Comedy is so much more basic than that. At the end of the day it doesnt matter what the humor is trying to say. All that matters is whether or not its funny. Come on! You know this. Tropic Thunder simply fell on its face far more often than not. No one cares if it had great intentions.

2) I will take back my comment a little bit. There were some funny moments in Tropic Thunder that showed off some wit. Once again though most of the jokes either werent funny in the first place, have been beaten to death by other comedies (Jack Black "Ill suck your dick" scene), or were dragged on far too long (Mathew McConehey and Tom Cruises scenes were horendous after a while. Great, or even good movies dont make big mistakes like that.

3) Once again you are showing your nerd side too much. It isnt about how fun the actors were having. its about how funny the film was. Ill take a miserable Jim Carey thats funny over a happy and boring Jim Carey any day.

4) I like live comedy just as much as anyone AS LONG AS ITS FUNNY. You bring up points that have nothing to do with a movies comedic value.

5) I know loads of people who think the Longest Yard is funny. I generally dont regaurd those people very highly when it comes to comedies. I also know loads of people who hated it. The same can not be said for movies like Dumb and Dumber, Anchorman, or Happy Gilmore. Everyone loves those films. Unfortunately for Tropic Thunder it falls in the the former catagory.

- Fact is, that this movie was filled with has beens. Every great comedian has his day in his late 20's and 30's. Once they hit 40+ its generally over.

quote:

Maynard James Keenan
Participant
Posted 08 December 2008 06:49 PM

You are a crazy nerd who just described yourself.

1) Comedy is so much more basic than that. At the end of the day it doesnt matter what the humor is trying to say. All that matters is whether or not its funny. Come on! You know this. Tropic Thunder simply fell on its face far more often than not. No one cares if it had great intentions.

2) I will take back my comment a little bit. There were some funny moments in Tropic Thunder that showed off some wit. Once again though most of the jokes either werent funny in the first place, have been beaten to death by other comedies (Jack Black "Ill suck your dick" scene), or were dragged on far too long (Mathew McConehey and Tom Cruises scenes were horendous after a while. Great, or even good movies dont make big mistakes like that.

3) Once again you are showing your nerd side too much. It isnt about how fun the actors were having. its about how funny the film was. Ill take a miserable Jim Carey thats funny over a happy and boring Jim Carey any day.

4) I like live comedy just as much as anyone AS LONG AS ITS FUNNY. You bring up points that have nothing to do with a movies comedic value.

5) I know loads of people who think the Longest Yard is funny. I generally dont regaurd those people very highly when it comes to comedies. I also know loads of people who hated it. The same can not be said for movies like Dumb and Dumber, Anchorman, or Happy Gilmore. Everyone loves those films. Unfortunately for Tropic Thunder it falls in the the former catagory.

- Fact is, that this movie was filled with has beens. Every great comedian has his day in his late 20's and 30's. Once they hit 40+ its generally over.

Ahh...good commentary. For once, you have really made a solid and valuable contribution to this thread. My compliments to your rather well thought out presentation. And I will graciously accept your ideas. I don't mind being called a "crazy nerd" as it does rather fit my character and I'm glad you reminded me. As for your preferences of funny movies you and I definitely have strong differences of opinion. It's too bad I can't figure out what you find funny or not. But I'm going to still stick with my belief that comedy is much more complex rather than basic as you propose for if it was so basic I would think we wouldn't be arguing so much about it. I still laughed at George Burns and Bob Hope until they died. Oh God.

quote:

Originally posted by tabuno:

quote:

Maynard James Keenan
Participant
Posted 08 December 2008 06:49 PM

You are a crazy nerd who just described yourself.

1) Comedy is so much more basic than that. At the end of the day it doesnt matter what the humor is trying to say. All that matters is whether or not its funny. Come on! You know this. Tropic Thunder simply fell on its face far more often than not. No one cares if it had great intentions.

2) I will take back my comment a little bit. There were some funny moments in Tropic Thunder that showed off some wit. Once again though most of the jokes either werent funny in the first place, have been beaten to death by other comedies (Jack Black "Ill suck your dick" scene), or were dragged on far too long (Mathew McConehey and Tom Cruises scenes were horendous after a while. Great, or even good movies dont make big mistakes like that.

3) Once again you are showing your nerd side too much. It isnt about how fun the actors were having. its about how funny the film was. Ill take a miserable Jim Carey thats funny over a happy and boring Jim Carey any day.

4) I like live comedy just as much as anyone AS LONG AS ITS FUNNY. You bring up points that have nothing to do with a movies comedic value.

5) I know loads of people who think the Longest Yard is funny. I generally dont regaurd those people very highly when it comes to comedies. I also know loads of people who hated it. The same can not be said for movies like Dumb and Dumber, Anchorman, or Happy Gilmore. Everyone loves those films. Unfortunately for Tropic Thunder it falls in the the former catagory.

- Fact is, that this movie was filled with has beens. Every great comedian has his day in his late 20's and 30's. Once they hit 40+ its generally over.

Ahh...good commentary. For once, you have really made a solid and valuable contribution to this thread. My compliments to your rather well thought out presentation. And I will graciously accept your ideas. I don't mind being called a "crazy nerd" as it does rather fit my character and I'm glad you reminded me. As for your preferences of funny movies you and I definitely have strong differences of opinion. It's too bad I can't figure out what you find funny or not. But I'm going to still stick with my belief that comedy is much more complex rather than basic as you propose for if it was so basic I would think we wouldn't be arguing so much about it. I still laughed at George Burns and Bob Hope until they died. Oh God.

Don't worry about it. I just hate it when people open their mouths and nonsense pours out. Just really think before you post next time. Self reflection is great for people like you. Anyway, take care and have a solid day.

quote:

Maynard James Keenan
Participant
Posted 10 December 2008 07:09 AM

Don't worry about it. I just hate it when people open their mouths and nonsense pours out. Just really think before you post next time. Self reflection is great for people like you. Anyway, take care and have a solid day.

I still "solidly" enjoy Tropic Thunder, I laughed a lot when I saw it, and I am planning on seeing it again in order to make more reasoned comments about it and "really think" more about it though you imply perhaps I need to think less about it - a paradox. My previous comments may be crazy and nerdy but I don't think they're "nonsense" at least they still make sense to me if for nobody else. Though reading a majority of posts on this thread, I'm assuming that my comments make some sense to more than one person other than myself. We'll see perhaps.

Tropic Thunder (2008)

Warning - Spoilers (selected black outs follow, to see them place cursor over them)

A Second Extended Look
(screened for a second time January 3, 2008).

Introduction

Tropic Thunder made my top ten list for its intelligent and informative look at our selves, allowing us to laugh at our own excessive indulgence. This movie was a rich parody of the movie industry, a gorgeous look at film making using rich color photography and supported by an energetic musical track that fit well with the Vietnam War era of the period film within a film.

Trailer and Commercial Twists

The attention for comic detail began immediately with the movie's use of fake trailers and commercials, blurring the distinction between reality and fiction (a possible wry commentary on the marketing excesses of the film studios and distributors). The pre-introduction to the movie pushed the envelope of real trailers in order to reveal our own susceptibility to crass and crude but with incorporating the more meaningful underlying message by using slight "over" playing to inform us of its stupidity. The audience gets to experience the true distinction between real comedy and fake comedy.

First War Action Scene

By the time we get to the actual movie, the opening sequence includes a compelling and interesting realistic war action scene beginning with the loud and noisy helicopters pounding with vibrant energy. Then the scene transitions into overly exaggerated stunt movements of men being hurdled by explosions, the beginning inklings of fake deaths but a parody on the movie industry's delicate balance between embracing war and violence for ticket sales and overkill and brutal insensitivity to war's horrors. The sequence is both gross and exploitive but at the same time revealing in the actual horror of war the general public overlooks and how we get de-sensitized to war violence. Sometimes it takes a overly played gross horror to remind us of the terrible nature of war. At the same time there is both fascination and horror while we get to see the underyling nature of movie-making and the sometimes real foibles and mistakes, and technical problems that can occur on set.

This scene is amazing in both its simultaneous seriousness, straight acting and fake acting - not very often does one get a blend of fusion of comedy/drama. There are both reflections of the seriousness of war and sacrifice incorporating a scene directly from Platoon (1986) but highlighting it with a controversial, risky, comedic performance. This initial opening scene is an amazing feat as simultaneously we see the pain, hurt, and effort of men in war even if it's confusing in its presentation by its lurid over-dramatization . But this is the genre, like operatic comedy or drama. The audience gets to both laugh and cry at the same time of the same scene - a fascinating experience of a fusion of emotions where one is both revolted by the scene, revolted by one's own reaction, but more intensely focused on the scene because of the unique experience of this blend of emotions. We get to see what poor comedy is like but get to realize the deliberate nature of the parody of comedy and experience the scene for what it is not what moralistic, insulting implications it might present.

The scene was photographed well, with intense color and good production value (that betrays the supposedly terrible, poor quality of the movie as its being shot). The exploding helicopter (that is impossible) promotes and highlights the nature of how far special effects have gone (and the movie's producers/directors know this and let the audience know that they know it). Yet at the same time, there are some serious shrapnel consequences of real war effects. There are action thrills and chills that propel both excitement and comedy and drama side by side. During this scene the audience is transported into a fantasy land of movie, realism, and deliberate fake action - a mixture of experience rarely obtained in a movie. The mind doesn't know whether to get upset, cry, laugh, become educated to the multiple messages being sent out. There are crude one-liners, parodies, yet the actors play it straight never acknowledging the dumb comedy and play it as real as if the comedy must come from the subtle performance, not the inevitable belief that its grossly funny (which it if was, it would fail miserably). This scene is a parody of the dumb comedies yet it also pulls out a heartfelt tenderness of what a serious action drama might have accomplished.

The Parody of the Film Industry

The transitional scene to the scene as a movie set provides a vicarious behind the scenes look at the foibles that occur in movie making - such as the can only do it once aerial strafing scene (a movie within a movie). There are actual small bits of dialogue that are both plausibly real and a parody at the same time, like the gem "That's C-4, put that back" playing on the use of native technicians and the possible real dangers of action movies. There's the brief boom line dropping into the scene shot. There's Jack Black's character hanging onto the helicopter. The difficulties of this scene are examples of real difficulties that occur on sets and we can look back and laugh them. Getting tangled in wires, disagreements between actors, use of technical advisors, director meltdowns. These aren't prat falls, these are real situations that happen and cause the movie people to both hate and overcome but which we can also find hilarious.

The movie incorporates actual real life references such as Jack Black and Nick Nolte's own classic mug shot (where again one can laugh at one's past embarrassments). The movie is also a parody on movie bad boys and movie divas. It exploits the film industry's own excesses. There are set scenes of lavish furnishings, waterfalls, exotic rich office decor. Actor contractual perks. There's even mention of "residuals." Trya Banks gets to hold a mock but seemingly real interview with Ben Stiller. There is more going on in this movie than just one-dimensional comedy, it also digs deeper into bruised egos, redemption, and salvation.

Tom Cruise's character on-line and tele-conferencing has him directing a key grip to hit the director, an new amusing way of making a point (rather than a prat fall or some other dumb physical comedic skit). Cruise's character uses obscene language often used in real life that's avoided by many comic movies. Nick Nolte builds on the stereotypical, hard-nosed veteran while Cruise's character conveniently ignores him as the source material (that is also often the case in the industry). This scene also reveals the emotional intensity and the overlapping difficulties in making a movie between producer and director. Nick Nolte has a scene with the director, using obscene language in describing how inadequate the director is yet at the same time the director doesn't know what Nick Nolte's character is saying. But this line is a gem of allegorical enlightenment in a crass but descriptive way.

Nick Nolte's idea of creating a real-life experience movie by putting the actors into seemingly real situations is a fascinating play on the recent real life hand-held video approach of Cloverfield (2008) but from the director's or audience's perspective. In this comedy, the audience gets to distance itself appropriately, to experience the trauma and thrills from a rider's vantage point while being shot from a guerrilla, gritty, dirty style approach. There are some dazzling spectral color-filled shots of the jungle, a rich panorama, pallet of hues and tones, rich photography used in this movie.

The Rich Humor of the Movie Itself

By the time the real plot of the movie within a movie occurs, the director sudden departs involuntarily that results in a compelling mind-blowing fusion of emotion that extend to feelings of repulsion, denial, puzzlement, and humor all twisted up in dark cynical confusion. How Ben Stiller's character handles the director exit is both disgusting and delightfully, wickedly gross. It forces the audience to both become horrified and repulsed but also pulls the audience into a fine line of comedic misdirection and confusion. This is difficult and risky comedy at perhaps its finest. Nick Nolte plays it serious with humorous repercussions (not knowing name of the weapon he's wearing but only the sound it makes when it takes a man's life), and the special effects person reacts as if Nick is crazy. The movie both plays it for real but then acknowledges the craziness of itself, laughs at itself. All the while only Robert Downey Jr's character has the sense to be aware of the reality of their situation and yet he also remains in character, while the audience gets to teeter on the balance of fear and comedy, between life and possible death. The movie's intensity is only magnified with the accompanying music that energizing and consistent in heightening the flavor of war and combat by its rhythm and pulsing echoes of the Vietnam War.

Additionally, the humor continues with Ben Stiller's imrovs commando hand signs that nobody knows what they mean. His character then has this remarkable and tantalizing conversation about playing a "retarded" character that goes to the meaning and essence of acting but at the same time there is this underlying mind game going on with Robert Downey Jr's performance and talks about Oscar winning performances playing retarded but not being retarded - the audience gets to experience a multi-layered scene densely rich in both cynicism, playing on playing characters while finally becoming a light dramatic scene of insight that is both humanizing, enlightening and informative. This movie also exposes the artifice within the artifice as Nick Nolte character brings more to the scene than meets the eye and imparts how the how fantasy-making of movie industry is sometimes has become a series of smoke and mirrors.

The movie continues to play it consistently through, including Jack Black's character talking about the real arms weaponry being too heavy and wanting a prop instead. He thenloses his stash to a bat in the jungle and then like a vampire trying to eat it. What makes this comedy so rich and superlative is its delicate balance between the dark comedy of semi-serio lost in the jungle menace and its attempts at resolution and the Ben Stiller and Robert Downey Jr. trying to out do the other (there are attempts at manhood - Ben Stiller's using a knife to open a energy drink can to use as fake pee). Then there's the fun, witty Robert Downey Jrs' "you people" scene, with Downey playing an African American soldier who in character complains about Ben Stiller's use of the term, a play on the racial phrase that makes us look more deeply into the words that effect us as a culture. Again substantive, intelligent one-liners continue including the complaint about "Viet Congs," being already a plural world as one wouldn't say Chineses. Then extending his performance even further, Robert Downey then plays a role within a role when he's supposedly having to play a role when deceiving Ben Stiller to get the map.

This comedy isn't brainless and stupid and gag-oriented. Instead it also delves into morality and ethics raising questions about one's duty to finish the movie, being a team, a company, but that is riveted with conflict, differences of personal interests, and being lost. And the film parody continues (unlike most dumb comedy's that just use not related one-liners). There is then the lowly actor who is talking to himself (though it's a fascinating discussion of the future of movie media formats). Later he continues to talk about movies, until he's told to shut up (in less polite terms). This is hilarious. He admits to getting information about Laos and heroin on the in-flight magazine. Then Downey's character meets his match being called a Kangaroo Jack by the real African American actor. Later he goes on with the "nigger" word and deliciously overly dramatizes the who race card issue that forces us back to look at acting, at how we use words and their effect on us. Then Ben Stiller gets jungle fever while watching an old Star Trek episode in the rain and dark night and encounters a strange being and attacks it with devastating results to his own person which is comedic which ends up with a tribute to Apocalypse Now (1979).

The Wrap Up

At the climax of the action scene, the actors portray a fascinating sense of insecurity (that they don't know who they are after all the characters they play, The Wrap Up) but then they reveal and come to the conclusion how such stars are role models and can be inspirations to a younger generation. For more comic relief, the special effects guy says, "Oh God, I'm moving to catering after this!" after the getaway truck gets blown up by a bazooka. Another nice parody but of a tasteful kind is shown with Ben Stiller's character in a scene reminiscent of shell shock Saving Private Ryan at the end of that movie. A another funny tidbit comes up when Nick Nolti keeps getting laughs when eventually his colleagues discover he has hands, a nice continuity piece often missing in dumb comedies.

In a nice round circle the climactic scene reprises the beginning military conflict escape scene but in "supposed real life" (in the movie) with Ben Stiller reprising the famous [COLOR:YELLOW]Platoon (1986) scene played by Willem Dafoe along with cold legs in cold water. "I know who you are. You are my friend," says Ben Stiller to Downey who comes back to take him back to the helicopter saved by McConaughey's tuvo box that the bazooka impacts instead.[/COLOR] The final touches include Jon Voight has with cameo as the expecting Oscar winner (for a sense of humor) and Jennifer Love Hewitt as a cameo as a date for the unknown star actor a final bit of comedy.

This movie was both smart, consistent and a tribute to the extravaganza known as Hollywood.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tabuno,