quote:

Originally posted by kendocubano:
Oh, good for you. It is superb. Be prepared for much strangeness! You have read Murakami before, though, if I remember correctly?

I haven't read him before, actually. I am quite prepared for strangeness though.

Murakami is a gem. I re-read Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World over the summer.

quote:

Originally posted by kendocubano:
If you'd like to read something relatively new, but thematically similar, I'll make two recommendations. More sophisticated and complex, but mining some of the same territory.

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrel by Sussana Clarke

Thanks for the recommendation kendo. This book was included in the new feature over at the AV club. I was at the book store just killing time before class and I saw that they had a special edition, hard-cover edition of the book on sale. It’s supposed to be $34 or something like that but I got it for like $6.04 so I picked it up.

I don’t know if I will read it right away or check out the 7th Harry Potter book from the library first—I was going to buy it but they only have the book in the hard-cover edition which is a steep $35—but I do plan on reading Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell sometime soon.

Awesome, I hope you enjoy it.

BTW, and I hate to be a spoiler, but the big secret in the 7th HP book is that Hagrid and Dumbledore were lovers.

There. Now you know.

quote:

Originally posted by kendocubano:
BTW, and I hate to be a spoiler, but the big secret in the 7th HP book is that Hagrid and Dumbledore were lovers.

There. Now you know.

I figured that would happen once I found out that Dumbledore was gay, it all makes sense to me now.

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:

quote:

Originally posted by kendocubano:
BTW, and I hate to be a spoiler, but the big secret in the 7th HP book is that Hagrid and Dumbledore were lovers.

There. Now you know.

I figured that would happen once I found out that Dumbledore was gay, it all makes sense to me now.

The whole Dumbledore is gay revelation by Rowling really bothers me. Not because he's gay, but I have a problem if an author reveals something about a character that is not evident, or at least hinted at in the text.

What possible value is there in revealing something like that after the fact? Does it really add anything to the story, or is she pushing some sort of an agenda? And if she does have an agenda, it seems to me it would have had a bigger impact had she included the fact in the text.

Does anyone else take issue with this?

I’ve wanted to say something about this for a while and now that you bring it up P, I think it’s time I do. Rowling claimed that she has hinted at Dumbledore being gay in all of the books. This is still rather strange and yet, it kind of makes sense. She also claims that she doesn’t care what people think about it. She says that Christians already contend and dislike her books because they think she promotes witchcraft and that now they would just have another reason to dislike her books.

When she made this proclamation I stared to think of what is possibly stated in the books to hint at this. In books 1-6, they never mention him ever being with anyone. Never had any kids, never married, nothing. Then again, this is a topic (romance, love, relationships) that Rowling rarely delves into. Sure she mentions that a couple of the kids kissed, Harry finally gets into girls around book 4 and has a real relationship in book 6, Ron as well, but she never gives details. She never mentions anything about the other people that work at Hogwarts either. It be like if she said McGonagall was gay. Everyone would think, “OK…what was the point of saying it if you never mention anything in the book?”

I don’t know, I guess I don’t make any sense. But yeah, I also take issue with this.

I haven't read the Harry Potter books, but I believe the reason she outed Dumbledore was that a fan asked if Dumbledore had ever fallen in love. It wasn't like she wrote up a press release or anything.

It may or may not have been hinted at in the text, but a lot of writers will do detailed background sketches of a character when developing them, including much more information than what's actually revealed in the text. She can probably tell you Dumbeldore's favorite food and whether he's a boxers or briefs guy.

I don't think she was actually pushing any kind of agenda, but rather just honestly answering a question about this character she created.

I'm a (non-practicing/hopefully soon to be practicing again) writer, so I know what you're saying about a character sketch, but simply put, if it ain't in the text, it don't exist. If a reader can't understand why a character is the way he/she is from the source text, it's not there. If Dumbledore's homosexuality doesn't inform his actions or manifest itself, why bring it up, especially after-the-fact? Now, I'm not saying that a textually identified gay character has to somehow "act gay" or have their homosexuality inform their every decision, of course they don't. Maybe Rowling should have been a little more responsible with her comment. She had to know saying he was gay would bring about firestorm of opinions. I suspect it was from superfans wanting to know every detail about every character's life, but still, why bother, even if you did just want to piss off (some) Christians.

I think this is the text of the Q/A that led to the revelation:

quote:

Did Dumbledore, who believed in the prevailing power of love, ever fall in love himself?

JKR: My truthful answer to you... I always thought of Dumbledore as gay. [ovation.] ... Dumbledore fell in love with Grindelwald, and that that added to his horror when Grindelwald showed himself to be what he was. To an extent, do we say it excused Dumbledore a little more because falling in love can blind us to an extent? But, he met someone as brilliant as he was, and rather like Bellatrix he was very drawn to this brilliant person, and horribly, terribly let down by him. Yeah, that's how i always saw Dumbledore. In fact, recently I was in a script read through for the sixth film, and they had Dumbledore saying a line to Harry early in the script saying I knew a girl once, whose hair... [laughter]. I had to write a little note in the margin and slide it along to the scriptwriter, "Dumbledore's gay!" [laughter] "If I'd known it would make you so happy, I would have announced it years ago!"

Admittedly, I haven't read any of the HP books, but I don't see the big deal. It sounds to me like a pertinent fact to answering the question honestly, but probably not important enough to have been explicitly stated in the books. Why should she have to be more responsible with her comment? I'm sure she could care less about starting off a firestorm from a bunch of bigots who didn't like her books in the first place.

I just think the more important lesson from it is that Dumbledore's homosexuality obviously doesn't define him. It's a minor trait, and in most movies and literature, homosexuality does inform the actions of gay characters.

quote:

Originally posted by MajorNougat:
Admittedly, I haven't read any of the HP books, but I don't see the big deal. It sounds to me like a pertinent fact to answering the question honestly, but probably not important enough to have been explicitly stated in the books. Why should she have to be more responsible with her comment? I'm sure she could care less about starting off a firestorm from a bunch of bigots who didn't like her books in the first place.

I just think the more important lesson from it is that Dumbledore's homosexuality obviously doesn't define him. It's a minor trait, and in most movies and literature, homosexuality does inform the actions of gay characters.

I haven't read them either, and I don't think I conveyed my feeling accurately when I used the word responsible in the context I did. Pertinent as it may be, it really feels like a gotcha! moment to me. To me it's a twist that causes, or might cause people to re-examine the texts looking for clues that may not actually be there. And for people who have not read the book, it will almost force them to read it in light of this revelation. I think what I meant was, it was not a responsible literary comment for this very reason.

Let me say this, because of the books are still fresh in my head. Maybe kendo and/or Sin can help me as well. When she did say this I did think, “Eh, who cares?” and in reality, I don’t really care. I am not a superfan either—though I do hate Slytherin!—but I did take a while and think to myself, “I wonder if she ever hinted at him being gay in the books.” And I don’t think she ever did. She always painted Dumbledore as a very gentle, articulate, powerful, intelligent and caring wizard. Except for the wizard part, all of those could be characteristics to any gender, race or any form of sexuality.

I guess she did this because just wanted to be honest about the question and that’s fine and all. But like PRG said, she should have known it would have created somewhat of an uproar. I am sure that some superfans have already fervently scanned all of the books to find details of this. However, I don’t think they will find any.

It certainly doesn’t take/add anything for me in how much I like the series. And when I read the books, I basically pretend that she never said because it isn’t even pertinent to the story at all. I just go by what she did put in the text.

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:
I did take a while and think to myself, “I wonder if she ever hinted at him being gay in the books.” And I don’t think she ever did.

There was that one scene where Dumbledore was soliciting gay sex in the Ministry of Magic restroom...

It's a good thing I picked Eric to mod because of his "rugged good looks" or whatever the hell he has up at his MySpace.

started Vernon God Little and am completely rapt with it.

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
It's a good thing I picked Eric to mod because of his "rugged good looks" or whatever the hell he has up at his MySpace.

Are you joking? If not, could you hook us up with a link?

That was eric's rationale why he got picked. Yeah, I've seen what he looks like, but rugged good looks? It's time to get my Boxer barf bag!

My comment about Dumbledore's being gay, was, of course, completely off handed and snarky.

I've read all of the HP books, and saw no hint of sexual identity in any of the the books. With the exception of the very late revelation about Snape's romantic feelings toward Lily, the romantic lives of the teachers are, justly ignored. This is absolutely consistent with the school experience. After all, how much did you know about the romantic lives of your middle and upper school teachers? Oh, sure, one might have gotten pregnant, or gotten married, but wasn't that always a big deal? Because even imagining them outside of the school context was incongruous.

No other teacher's romantic or sexual proclivities are hinted at in any of the books. McGonigal? Moody? Who knows? Who cares?
I found her answer to the question unnecessarily intimate and intrusive. While I certainly don't think anyone should cave to the pressure of self appointed arbiters of morality, I also don't think her answer added to our understanding or appreciation of the character. Rather than making him three dimensional, it makes me have to envision Dumbledore red faced, sweaty and grunting during sexual congress. It's not something I wanted to picture, about any character in a childrens' book. It's a bit like imagining the sex lives of our parents, or old people. Of course, you know it happens, but who in their right mind wants to have to imagine it?

Vernon God Little was a strange little book. I'm not sure I thought it was NBA worthy, but I have warm memories of it. I can't remember any real details, but am pretty sure I enjoyed it.

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
That was eric's rationale why he got picked. Yeah, I've seen what he looks like, but rugged good looks? It's time to get my Boxer barf bag!

Don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.

Ya see what I mean?