OK, so we've got a thread for 'Guilty Pleasures', and a thread for bad films you nonetheless can't stop watching when you flick across them on cable. But I can't see a thread acknowledging those films which are pleasurable to watch precisely because they make your teeth hurt with their mind-numbing awfulness.

Admittedly, you've gotta have a certain mindset to embrace this category, but there's a reason that Plan 9 From Outer Space became a cult hit, and it wasn't the gentle subtlety of Vampira's performance. We fans of the inept rarely get a whole film to savour; often it's our lot to make do with little more than a few sweet moments of glorious brain-drilling agony amidst a wasteland of tedium. But when we find 'em, we shore enjoy 'em.

Let me kick things off by recalling the simple and delicate pleasure of U.S. President Whitmore (Bill Pullman) aboard Air Force One in 1996's Independence Day, and a monologue that I fear is burned into my brain - so I kinda hope I've got it wrong.

quote:

PRESIDENT WHITMORE

We could have evacuated the cities hours ago. That's one of the advantages of being a fighter pilot. In the Gulf War, we knew what to do. Things are... not simple now.

Of course, you have to imagine it being delivered in Pullman's stunned-mullet, almost supernaturally untrustworthy style. This humble speech took the risibility of the movie to a whole new enchanted place. And hey, "that's one of the advantages of being a fighter pilot"? Smooooth! <collapses to floor, speaking in tongues>

It's like that moment in Armageddon - I know, I'm really drawing on the classic canon in introduction, aren't I - when we've been cutting from team member to team member to see how they're each spending their last night on earth, and we cut to a crane-in shot of Ben Affleck and Liv Tyler on a picnic rug next to a car, and just for a millisecond you think the movie's gone to a car commercial, and then Steven Tyler's voice swells up on the soundtrack: "Don't wanna close my eyes..." and it's, like, so very, very wrong and so horribly, horribly right at the same time. Armageddon has no shortage of those; I seem to remember reading an interview with Liv Tyler where she ventured the opinion that the film would become a comedy cult classic down the line, and it increased my respect for her enormously, because she was clearly not talking about the deliberate comedy in it. "He's got space dementia." Eheh.

Of course, for exquisite sense-numbing torture in direction, scripting and performance, there's the Mariah Carey vehicle Glitter. Yes, I've watched it. Yes, all the way through. No, only light cerebral damage, I think. Anyway, there's a moment early on where the film transitions from a Mariah's-tortured-childhood moment back to the present; some chords tinkle on the soundtrack, and Mariah sings in voiceover: "Dear God, it's all so tragic and I / never had the chance to feel the / closure that I ultimately / need." End of song. I shit you not. It's brilliant. And just to prove that it wasn't a fluke, later on in the film when they feel the urge to remind you of her tragedy and need for closure - THEY PLAY IT AGAIN. Honestly, I cried.

Anyways, bring 'em on, movies that you enjoy not in spite of their awfulness but because of it. Or am I the only sick puppy in the kennel?

Troll 2.
That film is so brilliantly awful.

Hey maxwelledison, did you know there's a Criterion Collection edition of Armageddon? (And my girlfriend won't let me forget it).

Also, any Ed Wood movie (mainly Plan 9) defines "So bad it's good."

quote:

Originally posted by briggsjazzgroup:
Hey maxwelledison, did you know there's a Criterion Collection edition of Armageddon?

I've heard this one, but I've forgotten the punchline... no, seriously, really? Yikes. I might just have to treat myself to that, only I can't, because I'm only willing to spend ironic dollars on it... not actual ones. Or will I? Aaargh! I've got space dementia!

Good thread. I agree wholeheartedly about Independence Day, Armaggeddon, and the like. The sad thing is that pound for pound Independence Day is actually a better and more entertaining movie than the recent War of the Worlds in almost every respect. Now that Tom Cruise is a fucking lunatic, I have a feeling we'll be seeing more kitsch entries on his resume pretty soon.

That aside, my first entry to the "so bad it's good" category is Revenge of the Ninja, the second of Sho Kosugi's numerous ninja flicks of the 80's. Even though the production values, dialouge, and overall...well, movie, are laughably bad, the pre-Jackie Chan, pre-unrealistic bullshit "wire free" martial arts of Sho Kosugi are awesome (I've been into karate for what seems like an eternity and can spot a fake in this department); the "you-killed-my-family-now-it's-payback-time" plot is pure satisfaction. I probably watch this one at least once a year.

Of course Patrick Swayze's Road House needs absolutely no explanation whatsoever...

SHOWGIRLS is a real camp classic. It didn't quite make Elizabeth Berkely or whatever her name was a movie star.

And then there was the infamous BASIC INSTINCT, which did make Sharon Stone a movie star.

I remember all that bad buzz about ISHTAR, mentioned elsewhere on this board recently, but that thing was dead in the water. I remember seeing that one the night it opened. They were hoping to recapture the magic of the Hope/Crosby "ROAD" movies. Problem was the "ROAD" movies didn't have any magic.

The recent ELIZABETHTOWN, a complete misfire from an otherwise top-notch director Cameron Crowe, is destined for camp status. It has to be seen to be believed, particularly the scene at the end with Susan Sarandon at her ex-husband's funeral.

The version of A STAR IS BORN with Barbra Streisand. She looked like a poodle in that one with her curly hair-do and her 1970s era fashions, which haven't aged well, will make you howl.

Speaking of Streisand, THE MIRROR HAS TWO FACES will make you howl. Barbara plays an ugly duckling who blossoms.

A few I'd like to see, but have never gotten around to it include HOWARD THE DUCK, a film from the 1980s that George Lucas had some sort of involvement in, but later disowned.

There is a film called TOYS or something like that Barry Levinson directed that starred Robin Williams that is supposed to be so bad it is good.

And a film that Rob Reiner directed that has Bruce Willis in a small role in a Bunny Suit. I remember when Siskel & Ebert did their worst of the year show and one of them selected the film as the worst of the year and the other said he would have, but the show's rules said the choices had to be different so he selected something.

I missed one that I absolutely have to mention. That would be the spectacular bomb, BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES. When originally released back in the late 80's/early 90's it was highly anticipated because it was based on Tom Wolfe's bestseller, which is my all time favorite book.

What a stinker! What miscalculation. I'm a huge Brian DePalma fan -- gun to my head I'd say he's my favorite director -- but he was not the best choice for this material. And the casting was awful. First Tom Hanks was all wrong for the Sherman McCoy role, who was supposed to be a WASP icon. The guy I saw in the role was Christopher Reeve, who would have been perfect. Then they needed a boozy English Journalist. Michael Caine was around? He's a Brit, he's been known to take a drink or two and he's a terrific actor. Was he chosen? No. The boorish Bruce Willis, in an unbelievably bad performance, was cast.

I don't have a candidate for the actress who played Sherman's mistress, but certainly the filmmaker's could have found someone who would have brought more verisimilitude to the role than Melanie Griffith.

This film failed on so many levels. It hit wrong note after wrong note after wrote note from the director to the stars to even the supporting cast.

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisFromAstoria:
And a film that Rob Reiner directed that has Bruce Willis in a small role in a Bunny Suit. I remember when Siskel & Ebert did their worst of the year show and one of them selected the film as the worst of the year and the other said he would have, but the show's rules said the choices had to be different so he selected something.

Ah yes, North (1994), with little Frodo. Rob Reiner's first critical/commercial double flop, I think, after (deep breath): This Is Spinal Tap, The Sure Thing, Stand By Me, The Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally..., Misery and A Few Good Men... a helluva run to finish with Bruce Willis in a bunny suit...

quote:

maxwelledison posted:

Ah yes, North (1994), with little Frodo. Rob Reiner's first critical/commercial double flop, I think, after (deep breath): This Is Spinal Tap, The Sure Thing, Stand By Me, The Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally..., Misery and A Few Good Men... a helluva run to finish with Bruce Willis in a bunny suit...

I haven't seen North, This is Spinal Tap, nor The Sure Thing. I won't argue your thoughts regarding these movies, but I believe you might get some people to disagree with you with the last two movies. As for the rest, I might quibble about all of your picks except for The Princess Bride. But when it comes to Stand By Me (1986), it was nominated for an Oscar for Bestwriting, Screenplay based on material from another medium, nominated for an Outstanding Directorial Achievement by the Directors Guild of America and the Golden Globes, nominated for Best Dramatic Picture by the Golden Globes, and ranked in the top 250 movies by IMDb at #176.

quote:

Originally posted by tabuno:
I haven't seen North, This is Spinal Tap, nor The Sure Thing. I won't argue your thoughts regarding these movies, but I believe you might get some people to disagree with you with the last two movies. As for the rest, I might quibble about all of your picks except for The Princess Bride. But when it comes to Stand By Me (1986), it was nominated for an Oscar for Bestwriting, Screenplay based on material from another medium, nominated for an Outstanding Directorial Achievement by the Directors Guild of America and the Golden Globes, nominated for Best Dramatic Picture by the Golden Globes, and ranked in the top 250 movies by IMDb at #176.

Yes, Tabuno. I know. What did you think I was saying? That all those movies are critical and commercial flops? In fact, it's Rob Reiner's entire big-screen directorial resume up until the release of North - a quite startling run of films, all either critical or commercial successes of some note. North was poorly critically received and bombed at the box-office, the first time anything like that happened to Reiner. It's not actually a statement I expected anybody to argue.

Yes, Stand By Me is great, not least for the performance of the late River Phoenix. But you might want to check out This Is Spinal Tap, the mother of all mockrockumentaries and a painfully accurate depiction of a not-too-bright band on the road (there are several major bands whose members confess that they just can't watch it - the reflection is too brutal). And The Sure Thing contains a few of John Cusack's finest and funniest moments on film, and is unexpectedly tender and old-fashioned for a 'teen film' (it's essentially It Happened One Night recast at college-level).

Incidentally, you thought I was saying all of those films were flops... and you chose not to defend The Princess Bride? Inconceivable!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: maxwelledison,

Rob Reiner's directorial career has certainly been interesting. He was on a role for a while with all those films, which were both critically well received and box office successes. Then his career tanked. I don't know what happened, but he hasn't directed a good film in a decade or so. Another stinker, that I didn't see, is called something like THE SUM OF US, which starred Bruce Willis & Michelle Pfeiffer I believe. It received a critical drubbing and came and went from theatres quickly. I saw previews and Willis wears this absolutely hideous wig in flashback scenes. He was way too old for those scenes. I howled.

And don't look for "Meathead" to turn his career slide around any time soon. He is directing the forthcoming THE GRADUATE remake that stars Jennifer Aniston, Kevin Costner, Shirley MacLaine, Mark Ruffalo, et al. It is a troubled production. The original director was canned and Reiner was hired to clean up the mess. I've seen previews and the film looks absolutely awful.

The Onion's AV Club did a list a few months ago of ten flops worth seeing. You can read more here: http://avclub.com/content/node/39554

Here are my picks for some good ones in this catagory.

"Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-o-Rama"
"The Brain That Wouldn't Die" (actual film, not the MST3K dub, though I have nothing against those fine fellows. Far from it.)
"Army of Darkness" (not a bad film, but cheesy and fun because of its cheesy-ness)
"Astro-Zombies"
"Van Helsing" (I laughed until I cried. Then I just cried)

By the way, the Criterion Collection has also, inexplicably, released "The Rock." They also did "Robocop," but that one is out of print at the moment.

quote:

He is directing the forthcoming THE GRADUATE remake that stars Jennifer Aniston, Kevin Costner, Shirley MacLaine, Mark Ruffalo, et al. It is a troubled production. The original director was canned and Reiner was hired to clean up the mess. I've seen previews and the film looks absolutely awful.

I'm actually looking forward to this one, being the only decent looking movie coming out around Christmas. I trust Jennifer Aniston's movie decisions now (emphasis on now). It looks funny and entertaining and it has a cute plot. It's not as deep as Derailed (a pretty awesome movie) but comedy is good too. It's certainly harder to do than drama and I like that Jennifer is changing it up. She's earned my movie trust again.

quote:

BinaryVixen posted:

I'm actually looking forward to this one, being the only decent looking movie coming out around Christmas. I trust Jennifer Aniston's movie decisions now (emphasis on now). It looks funny and entertaining and it has a cute plot. It's not as deep as Derailed (a pretty awesome movie) but comedy is good too. It's certainly harder to do than drama and I like that Jennifer is changing it up. She's earned my movie trust again.

I am looking forward to seeing Rumor Has It... because I'm glad to see Kevin Costner coming back in what I hope will be one of his typical uncomfortable male characters for which I feel he is not appreciated. I haven't a fan of Jennifer Aniston mainly due to my not having been interested in watching Friends, I still am interested to seeing how she does in this movie though she still has a ways to go in order to demonstrate her full range of acting talent. But I've always thought that comedy is harder than drama so that Jennifer has an edge up on most aspiring actresses.

There's this Canadian film from a few years ago I saw on cable called "Lost and Delirious". It's about a student at an all girls school (Misha Barton) who discovers that her roommates are (gasp) lesbians. The whole movie is so completely overwrought that it's absolutely hilarious. It's like reading bad teenage poetry. And, as a bonus, it includes some logistically improbable girl-on-girl action.

This is a good topic. I love bad movies

How about Flowers in the attic? Never has such a serious story been so comically mishandled. I laughed all the way through.

See also 'The evil beneath Loch Ness'. They filmed it in America and ripped the plot off from Jaws. I thought Scotland was a cold, damp place but no! Loch Ness has sandy beaches, hot weather and sunbathers a-plenty - all wearing bikinis and drinking Budweiser. The ending features a local-man in a kilt (with an Irish accent). He paints half his face blue like Mel Gibson in Braveheart and swims off to fight the monster single-handed with a spear.

The key scene in the film is taken directly from Jaws - 'They got the wrong monster!'. Autopsy on a papier-mache Plesiosaur follows.

This film is so bad it has to be seen. An undiscovered classic.

I was going to mention Flash Gordon in this thread, but in retrospect I think it's too good.

Leprechaun:In The Hood

It's got Ice T and Coolio!!!

Kung Pow! Enter the.. whatever, I forget..

was the stupidest, most absurd movie I've ever seen, but I laughed my ass off and watched it 3 times.

The Super Mario Bros. movie was the best of bad movies, in my book. To be honest, I generally have better things to do with my time than watch movies that I know are really bad, but I'd watch this one again - possibly because it did actually did make me chuckle in parts. Example:

*Mario and Luigi are in a police station, following an arrest. An officer takes details*
Officer: (at Mario) Name?
Mario: Mario Mario.
Officer: (repeats the question to Luigi)
Luigi: Luigi.
Officer: Luigi Luigi?
Luigi: No, Luigi Mario
Officer: (to someone off-screen) We've got three Marios here.

Keep in mind that I'm just transcribing this from memory, having not seen the film in years. I'm not sure why that scene caught my fancy so much - maybe because I was about 11 when I first saw it.

As somewhat of a "nostalgia nut" I am embarrassed to say I enjoy "Peggy Sue Got Married." This movie has a great ensemble of actors and actresses: Kathleen Turner, Nicholas Cage, Jim Carrey, Helen Hunt, etc. Cage's accent is one of the greatest weaknesses of the film. His whiny voice grates on the nerves so badly it is difficult to listen to the dialogue. The characters are too old to play high school students and the ending is too syrupy. Yet, I love the soundtrack; and I love movies that deal with "regret." For some reason I enjoy this movie. Perhaps it is its simplicity, almost authentic set, and the music that keeps me coming back.