There has always been a history of gangster flicks. In the 30s, there was "Little Caesar", "The Public Enemy" and "Scarface."

More recently, of course, we had "The Godfather" , "GoodFellas" and "City of God."

There were thousands in between and there will be many more in the future.

Now, you may comment on any gangster film you'd wish, or maybe you can comment on why all my students in Santa Ana, CA, believe that Tony Montana in DePalma/ Stone's remake of the classic "Scarface" is the greatest hero they've ever known.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mark f,

How old are the students?

And I've also heard this statement said when talking to random "gangstas" in Union Square NYC. I was walking through the square with my newly purchased Scarface DVD and one of the guys commented on the movie as I walked by. The guy, along with his fellow gangstas then proceeded to tell me how the movie was a perfect representation of life as a gangsta. When I questioned them, they said I would never understand because I'm not like them.

K-Dog

Tony Montana is a hero to some because he made being a self-absorbed loner involved in gangs and drugs look cool! He validates the sense of uselessness and hopelessness in youth culture(especially in the U.S.) while balancing that with the quest for monetary gains and material objects that has taken over in North America. Personally a gangster or war movie has to be damn good for me to even attempt watching it, as those two subjects have become so stereotyped that watching them seems useless and redundant to me now. Just my humble opinions of course.

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Originally posted by Smenkharon:
Tony Montana is a hero to some because he made being a self-absorbed loner involved in gangs and drugs look cool! He validates the sense of uselessness and hopelessness in youth culture(especially in the U.S.) while balancing that with the quest for monetary gains and material objects that has taken over in North America. Personally a gangster or war movie has to be damn good for me to even attempt watching it, as those two subjects have become so stereotyped that watching them seems useless and redundant to me now. Just my humble opinions of course.

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As usual, S, your opinions are worth their weight in gold.

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Originally posted by K-Dog:
How old are the students?
_K-Dog_

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The scary part, , is that they can be anywhere from five to 18.

I thought Scarface was really crap to tell the truth. The first half worked really well in that it was exciting, witty, focused and believable. Then it got to a point where it seemed like the movie was being pulled in a few different creative ways at once, like it was trying to show all these sides to Tony Montana with most of them being unnecessary, boring, and just badly acted. It meant the sharp, focused plot got lost underneath all this bad pacing and the movie ended up being way to long. Then towards the end, all the built up dramatic tension is expended when Tony kills his friend and then you have the final climax which begins on the stupid and hyperbolic note of Pacino burying his face in a mountain of cocaine. Sure the films got a cool style about it, but who really cares when its just plain unenjoyable to watch. Very overated film.

Which movie is better, "The Godfather", "The Godfather, Part II", "GoodFellas", or "City of God"?

My vote is for "The Godfather", but maybe because it improved a potboiler novel, just like Spielberg did with "Jaws."

I gave a pretty scathing discourse on Scarface above and I would like to partially withdraw it. I watched it again last night because it was on TV. Im not sure if I was in a different mood or if the ad breaks changed the flow of the movie, but the film really had a magic about it that was quite seductive. I still think its hugely flawed and I still believe all I say above, but the film is really satisfying to watch and ... well ... cool.

Belly....

The students in your class that regard Tony Montana as their favorite movie hero are probably just spouting it off because that is what their favorite hip hop star said. I'm not saying I don't like Scarface, I'm just not going to jump on the bandwagon like the rest of the Snoop wannabees and call him my favorite. When they say things like that, it just goes to show that some people can tell you what you like, and you believe them. I know some people that start naming off the AFI's top 100 list when you ask them what their favortie movies. I mean, I actually know a guy who says that his favorite film is Citizen Kane! (Deep down it is probably Police Academy 6 or something) We will talk about this in another forum.

I like the Coen brother's take on the mob for two reasons, Albert Finney and his tommy gun. Miller's Crossing is a beautiful film that I find is often overlooked when the popular gangster movie topic is brought up. Unforgettable characters like Bernie Bernbaum and the Dane make this mob classic one of my all-time favorites.

I'm cheating by renaming the topic, but it seems that most posters have lots of opinions about crime flicks, but none of them show up here. Besides, I just watched "Miller's Crossing" again ( thanks, jakal) and wanted to open a new thread about crime/police flicks, but what's the point? We already have this one. Anybody want to add any comments about film noir, caper flicks, hoods, private detectives, police procedurals, or anything having to do with crime? This is strictly hush...hush and on the QT!

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Originally posted by mark f:
Which movie is better, "The Godfather", "The Godfather, Part II", "GoodFellas", or "City of God"?

My vote is for "The Godfather", but maybe because it improved a potboiler novel, just like Spielberg did with "Jaws."

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My roomate and I argue all the time about this. He says "GoodFellas", I say "The Godfather". In a magazine interview a few years back, Hank Hill, the guy who wrote the book that "GoodFellas" is based on named "The Godfather I & II" as the two best mobster movies ever made.

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Originally posted by mark f:
Which movie is better, "The Godfather", "The Godfather, Part II", "GoodFellas", or "City of God"?

My vote is for "The Godfather", but maybe because it improved a potboiler novel, just like Spielberg did with "Jaws."

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Tie: The Godfather and Goodfellas

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Originally posted by mark f:
Which movie is better, "The Godfather", "The Godfather, Part II", "GoodFellas", or "City of God"?

My vote is for "The Godfather", but maybe because it improved a potboiler novel, just like Spielberg did with "Jaws."

I vote for City of God. The film made a deep impact on me. I saw it on tv and had never heard about previously. It was a while ago, but the things I most remember was the violence beginning from the childhood, creating a self-perpetuating cycle of violence. I had never seen a movie about violence in an entire culture, just about rogue cops and such.
Side note: [Of the others I have only seenThe Godfather which was due to a class assignment, sometime after I saw City of God

10. A Bronx Tale - A movie that focuses on why & how easy it is for a very young life to become attracted to the mob-life.

9. Resevoir Dogs - The first thing that everyone thinks about this movie are the hit-men/thieves in the warehouse. However, the scenes of the initial planning/ set-up of the heist by mob-head Joe Cabot
& the planning of the infiltration by the undercover cop by Mr. Orange & Holdaway are pretty cool, too.

8. The Godfather lll - I know, I know.... everybody thinx this one sux. However, the Godfather Trilogy didn't come to me til much later in my life. Therefore, the 1st. Godfather film I ever watched was this one. So I got to see it without the comparison of it's 2 predecessors. And, IMO, on it's own, it's a very good mobster movie. Obviously, it can't compare to the 1st. 2, but, in the genre of mob-flicks, it kicks it's own particuler brand of mafia ass. Plus, with it's redemption-themed, politically-charged corporation/Vatican storyline,
it's a pretty goddamn smart movie, too.
Now, if only Sofia Coppola would've gotten shot at the beginning of the film instead of the end, maybe this flick would get a little more respect.

7. Casino - Goodfellas, Las Vegas style. Or as Co-Host might say, "Goodfellas 2, Electric Boogaloo".

6. Road To Perdition - Paul Newman & Tom Hanks as gangstas. F#ckin' 'ey, man.

5. Donnie Brasco - Al Pacino in the mob, but this time, on the opposite side of the heirarchy. A low-level aging hitman who can't get no respect. One of the few times Al gets to expand his acting muscles as opposed to just flexing 'em with a loud performance, which, though he's good at, has sorta become his standard.
For me, a great gangster movie isn't just about "wacking" people. It's when it shows the inner-most details of how the mob works. This one goes towards the very lowest part of the totem & shows us how the "cogs" grind thru a living in hopes of someday climbing that mafia ladder.

4. Bugsy - Bugsy is a film that doesn't even try to compete with other mob flicks. And therefore, it succeeds as a gangster movie that stands out on its own. It almost completely removes the realistic-type dialogue & the grittiness that is usually associated with this genre. I can almost sense the same sheen that the old black & white mafia films used to use to screen over the mobster characters & give em that "romanticized" look that they became famous for back then. For all their ruthlessness, the major players in this story come off as very likeable people.
And you can't beat the acting by Warren Beatty, Annette Benning, Harvey Keitel, Ben Kingsley, Elliot Gould & Joe Mantegna.

3. The Godfather 2 - I shan't go into detail why I think this such a great movie cuz I'll just end up repeating what has been said about this movie a millions times already.
However, I will mention that just when I thought I spotted all the " orange = death/violent act" scenes in this trilogy, upon my most recent viewing of G-2, I spotted another one. Right before Massimo Fanucci, The Black Hand Don, gets "hit", he grabs an orange from one of the fruit stands as he is walking thru the parade.
When I think about how many times I've watched this series, I cannot believe that this shot had eluded me for all this time.

2. Goodfellas - You just can't beat this gangster movie for charismatic energy. Scorcese pays close attention to the minute details that the mafia engage in for the sake of maintaining the lifestyle that they have become accustomed to. Also, the director shows how that type of self-contained lifestyle can only eventually crumble as the outside world continually changes & evolves.

1. The Godfather - As I stated with G-2, I'm not gonna repeat what every other friggin' person has already friggin said about why this friggin' film friggin' rocks. Instead, I'd like to point out my favorite foreshadowing scene in this flick.
When Luca Brasi ( the guy who ends up sleeping with the fishes) goes to make a deal with the rival crime-family, he walks thru a glass door that leads to the bar where he will meet his end. As the door closes, the scene is shot looking at Luca from behind, setting up the shot to so that you will notice fish that have been engraved into the glass & give the impression that they are surrounding Luca's body.
IMO, this is an example why friggin' Coppola is a friggin' genius.
One final note about the Godfather: I don't want to like this movie as much as I do. Because, when it comes to movies, I like it when my opinion veers away from that which the mainstream tends to think. However, when it comes to the Godfather,
I was made an offer that my tastes in cinematic-entertainment could not refuse.

However, if street gangsta movies are included, the I would add these:

5. The Warriors

4. Colors

3. Fresh

2. American Me

1. Boyz 'N' The Hood

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