Originally posted by Mike Angelo: Well, considering Genesis contradicts itself, I don't see a big deal in science contradicting it. In addition, there are 'mountains' of evidence that disprove the flawed concept of the earth being created in three days.
Say what you will about Genesis; it still makes more sense than 'Expelled'.
Point.
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Originally posted by IndieFolkExperimentalLover: You guys and your "mountains" jokes
by the way I wasn't trying to prove christianity i was just trying to make a point.
Well, I made my mountain joke because they are the actual proof that the earth has existed longer than 6,000 or so years.
I'm not really sure what your point is, though. That you can't believe in evolution in order to be a mainstream Christian? So? Think for yourself. I've known plenty of people of the Christian faith that are smart enough not to challenge evolution. Just because you're opinions aren't of the mainstream doesn't make them wrong.
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Originally posted by Mike Angelo: Just because you're opinions aren't of the mainstream doesn't make them wrong.
I would debate whether believing in the literal account of genesis even represents 'mainstream' christianity at all. I think the mainstream is actually more moderate than that, although I don't have any actual figures to back it up. It's just that they are less vocal about their views than the fundamentalists simply because they're more.. well.. moderate!
In fact, until the relatively recent resurgence (20th century) of fundamental christianity in America, only a very small percentage of christians over the last couple of hundred years actually believed the earth was literally created in 6 days.
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Posts: 295 | Location: Map Ref. 41° N 93° W | Registered: 19 August 2007
Originally posted by IndieFolkExperimentalLover: You guys and your "mountains" jokes
by the way I wasn't trying to prove christianity i was just trying to make a point.
Well, I made my mountain joke because they are the actual proof that the earth has existed longer than 6,000 or so years.
I'm not really sure what your point is, though. That you can't believe in evolution in order to be a mainstream Christian? So? Think for yourself. I've known plenty of people of the Christian faith that are smart enough not to challenge evolution. Just because you're opinions aren't of the mainstream doesn't make them wrong.
Well in Genesis it says:
26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
I would guess that this means God created man in his image and likeness, not in the likeness of an ape which evolved. So to believe in evolution being a christian would have to be absurd.
Originally posted by IndieFolkExperimentalLover: I would guess that this means God created man in his image and likeness, not in the likeness of an ape which evolved. So to believe in evolution being a christian would have to be absurd.
Yes, but only if you interpret the story of genesis literally. Are you aware that most christians for the past couple of hundred years have believed that genesis is a story of creation, to demonstrate god's power, rather than a literal, factual account of what happened?
'Young earth creationists' - those who believe the word-for-word account of genesis - have historically (since the 18th century or so, I'm not sure of the dates or figures but you could look them up) only been a small group within christianity.
It is perfectly possible for a christian to believe in evolution if they believe that genesis is a story to demonstrate how god created the world, and not an actual account. Most christians believe exactly this.
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Posts: 295 | Location: Map Ref. 41° N 93° W | Registered: 19 August 2007
Originally posted by IndieFolkExperimentalLover: I would guess that this means God created man in his image and likeness, not in the likeness of an ape which evolved. So to believe in evolution being a christian would have to be absurd.
Yes, but only if you interpret the story of genesis literally. Are you aware that most christians for the past couple of hundred years have believed that genesis is a story of creation, to demonstrate god's power, rather than a literal, factual account of what happened?
'Young earth creationists' - those who believe the word-for-word account of genesis - have historically (since the 18th century or so, I'm not sure of the dates or figures but you could look them up) only been a small group within christianity.
It is perfectly possible for a christian to believe in evolution if they believe that genesis is a story to demonstrate how god created the world, and not an actual account. Most christians believe exactly this.
Yes, yes I was aware of that; if they believe genesis was a "story" and not an actual account, I guess it could work. The only problem I have with this theory are the other stories in the book of genesis: Noah's Ark, Joseph and the coat of many colors, etc. If they believe the story of God creating the world in Genesis 1 is a "story" and not an actual account, do they believe the other stories in Genesis are just "stories" and not actual accounts?
Yes, yes I was aware of that; if they believe genesis was a "story" and not an actual account, I guess it could work. The only problem I have with this theory are the other stories in the book of genesis: Noah's Ark, Joseph and the coat of many colors, etc. If they believe the story of God creating the world in Genesis 1 is a "story" and not an actual account, do they believe the other stories in Genesis are just "stories" and not actual accounts?
I have no idea. I'm not an expert on interpretations of genesis. Again, this is something you have to consider for yourself. What I do know is that christian thinkers have been debating the meanings of genesis since the earliest days of christianity. This isn't some recent fad to have it both ways so that modern christians can believe in both evolution (and the scientific account of the world's creation) and in the bible: I'll say it again - Christian theologians have always pondered the meanings of genesis throughout history, and trust me, most of them were much greater thinkers than the average evangelical you find in America today.
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Posts: 295 | Location: Map Ref. 41° N 93° W | Registered: 19 August 2007
Although we do know the jews were in ancient Egypt and the story of Joseph could tell us how they got there.
Oh there's history in there, no doubt about it.
But my point is, don't let anyone tell you that being a christian means you always need to stick your fingers in your ears and reject what science has to say, or that to believe in science you need to throw away your spirituality.
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Posts: 295 | Location: Map Ref. 41° N 93° W | Registered: 19 August 2007
You should also keep in mind that the Bible wasn't written in English, and you're reading just one of many differing translations of the book. The Hebrew word for day, "yom", can also mean "a period of time". Even if you do believe the Genesis creation story, the amount of time in which it was created it is wide open for interpretation.
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Posts: 5381 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
